Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Is this something that should have been taken seriously in high places?
Conservative
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
Yes, that's what should have been done immediately.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Thank you.
Thank you for being here.
I will do my questions as quickly as I can.
I was pleased to hear you say you think the RCMP should be investigating this, because it is the position the federal New Democrats have taken since the beginning, that there should be an RCMP investigation. From what you have said, we can conclude that Mr. Bernier broke his contractual agreement that he signed, by not revealing that information to the Prime Minister.
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
I agree.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Second, would all cabinet ministers be at the same level of security?
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
Yes, likely so, because the information within the cabinet is some of the most sensitive information the government holds.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Right, because they would all have access to classified information of some kind--
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
Top secret.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
--although perhaps other ministers are of an even higher level.
If people were to change positions in cabinet, given that they already have a security level three, would there be any further investigation done of them if they were taking on what is an even more highly sensitive portfolio, or is level three as high as you can go?
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
It's the ceiling.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
I think I recall reading that Ms. Couillard and Mr. Bernier were at a reception with President Bush. If you have any experience with this, can you tell us if everybody who was at the reception with President Bush had to have some security clearance to be there?
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
From my experience, what would happen is that the American authority would rely on the Canadian authority to have conducted the security clearance and the background check in advance. Therefore, when the Canadian authorities vouch for that person, the green light is given.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Then the American authorities could safely expect that the Canadian authorities had checked the background of Ms. Couillard and approved it, if she was there with Mr. Bernier.
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
Indeed yes.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Should all cabinet minsters then be—because you are saying it is a double standard, and you also said it's the weak link—subject to the same level of at least initial scrutiny that a federal employee would be?
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
In my humble opinion, yes.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
Should partners of cabinet ministers be subject to some kind of security check?
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
No more or less than what is currently conducted for any federal employee. Basically, as in the example I shared with you, when we are investigating the person, we will unavoidably ask questions about the relationship of the couple, relationship of the spouse.
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
That's right.
Former Senior Intelligence Officer at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, As an Individual
To go any further may not be necessary and is also costly, so there is a sort of trade-off here.
NDP
Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC
My last point would be, based on your experience--and partially based on mine, after spending ten years in a provincial cabinet--very classified information would be numbered, would be signed out to individuals. Then if it were not returned, somebody would be knocking on my door, asking, “Where is the classified information you have possession of?” Is that a tracking system that has ever been in place?
