Public Safety Committee on Oct. 27th, 2010

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right. So you are not aware that there is a nurse, I believe, or at least nursing staff, at your Maplehurst prison, who vaccinates people without their consent?

[Steven Small]

No.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Things are going pretty badly then.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Things are really bad. Mr. Small, you will have to know and investigate this matter because some people were vaccinated without their consent. That's unacceptable. I've worked in prisons, and staff are not allowed to administer medication if people don't want to take it. Am I wrong or right?

[Steven Small]

I will review that matter and provide information to the committee on what exactly took place.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well. However, Mr. Chairman, I would like Mr. Small to conduct an investigation and submit a report to us. That's one of the topics I wanted to address, and I'm not finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Again, let me remind all of us that we have allegations toward certain things. We have witnesses, but we have allegations.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Chairman, these aren't allegations. I met these people and they told me they had been vaccinated; they didn't hallucinate. These aren't allegations, all right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

It's an allegation.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I'll continue.

Mr. Small, you have before you Ms. Jacinthe Poisson, who underwent—I hope she didn't hallucinate either, Mr. Chairman—a strip search at the Vanier Centre for Women, and that search was conducted while the door to the room was open. Any of the male guards could see her. Are you aware of that?

[Steven Small]

I was not aware of that until I heard it from the witness.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Is it common practice at the Vanier Centre to search women in front of men?

[Steven Small]

No.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Then you'll prepare a report on that matter as well. I don't believe these are allegations on Ms. Poisson's part. If you believe they are, that's tantamount to calling her a liar, Mr. Chairman. I believe she knows whether or not she was searched.

Very well.

[Steven Small]

I will review the matter and provide information to the committee.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well. Thank you, Mr. Small.

Ms. Poisson, I read your evidence. I met you, your sister and you, and you said that, when you appeared in court, the judge, a man or a woman, told you that you would at last be able to eat as much as you wanted and to sleep, and to have a place to sleep, because you were going to the Vanier Centre. Is that what happened?

[Jacinthe Poisson]

Yes. In fact, around 11:00 p.m., people started to file in front of the judge. I believe that approximately 10 individuals were released; they were able to learn their fate after 40 hours in detention. Shortly afterward, however, the judge said that she was tired and that she wanted to postpone all the appearances until the next day. She told us that we would be able to sleep in a bed that night, that we would be able to rest, to be in acceptable conditions, because she seemed surprised at the conditions to which we had been subjected. At 11:00 p.m., the rumour circulating among the cells was that we were at last going to be able to sleep in a bed. Unfortunately, that was not the case.

So, until 4:00 a.m., we were left in the basement of the prison, where, I remind you, the floor is very cold, and without clothing to warm us up. We were transferred to the Vanier Centre at 4:00 a.m. Upon our arrival, we were interrogated and asked among things, “Are you crazy?” and “Are you going to commit suicide?” which was quite insulting. There was a partial medical examination and a second strip search. We received a cheese sandwich once again and we were ultimately unable to sleep. We were locked up in a cell for an hour and, at 7:00 a.m., we had to leave again to go to court. The judge's nice promises were never kept.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Small, it appears from the evidence from both men and women that, when they appeared in court, they were assured that they would at last eat and sleep, and that did not happen at that prison. However, according to your testimony, you say that all detention management policies were complied with and that the employees were respectful. I understand that that was not the case and that you are not aware of the matter. Perhaps there are grounds for a general investigation into everything that happened. What do you think of that?

[Steven Small]

Many of the prisoners from port arrived very late at night, or very early in the morning, to be precise. We provided the care during their stay. If there are any matters that need to be reviewed, I would like to say to this committee that we will review those matters and provide that information to the committee.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Ms. Mourani. Your time is up.

We'll move to Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for coming to give us the benefit of your testimony, particularly the two young women from Quebec. I appreciate the courage it takes to tell your story.

I want to address some questions to all of you, but first, Madame Des Rosiers, you said that you had up to 50 observers on the ground in Toronto observing what was going on. Is that correct?

[Nathalie Des Rosiers]

That's correct.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I've heard anecdotally--Mr. Chairman says they're allegations, and I think that's correct at this point--a number of allegations that there were individuals who were subject to illegal searches by police. Did any of your observers have any first-hand evidence of that?