Public Safety Committee on July 15th, 2019

[Denis Berthiaume]

Yes.

Regarding operations, I first want to say that no one, when they turn on their computer in the morning, has access to all the data. That is not how things work. At Desjardins, jobs are categorized according to the data required to do the work. That's the first thing.

Moreover, our organization has implemented a number of internal security and control mechanisms, but we do not want to discuss those publicly, as even our employees are unaware of those mechanisms. So I cannot describe them in any great detail.

Concerning this particular situation, a police investigation is under way, and that makes the issue highly sensitive. Quite frankly, we don't want to hinder the ongoing police investigation in any way.

As I just said, we cannot provide details on our security mechanisms, as they are important for helping us prevent this from happening again. The situation involves a single employee, but I can tell you that our security mechanisms detect external or other elements of fraud. I want to reiterate that it is extremely difficult to completely protect against a malicious employee.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Will you review your internal rules?

[Denis Berthiaume]

Concerning the security measures, we are constantly evolving. In any given year, Desjardins invests $70 million in security, and data and personal information protection. We are constantly improving in order to adapt to new technologies that create new fraud possibilities. People try to create new schemes, and we are constantly evolving to be able to identify them.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

I am glad you talked about the four procedures you have implemented. My parents are seniors and have no Internet. They went to their caisse Desjardins in person to get someone to assist them, and it did not work very well.

[Guy Cormier]

In the early days, Equifax enrolment was a challenge for us.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

People without Internet access cannot sign up for it.

[Guy Cormier]

So we made the decision to provide a service to people without Internet access. As of today, people who want to could still obtain the alert service. That service will be taken over by Desjardins, which will be able to communicate with them afterwards. We have innovated when it comes to Equifax to find a solution for those people.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cormier, you and I, like Mr. Lapointe, are victims of the leak. I understand perfectly that it is difficult to fully control a malicious employee. It is virtually impossible.

That said, the leak will have various repercussions on Desjardins members. For some, nothing will come of it, while others will be victims of fraud at some point in the future. My constituents have asked me why you are offering the Equifax service free of charge for five years and not for 10, 15 or 20 years.

[Guy Cormier]

Mr. Berthiaume, you can answer the question on the five-year period, and then we will come back to the answer from this morning. That is a question we have already been asked.

[Denis Berthiaume]

First, we wanted to respond quickly by providing five years of protection. As we were unhappy with that protection period, we decided to extend it. The president announced this morning that Desjardins was committing to provide protection for life. We did not settle for a five-year protection period. We have a partnership with Equifax to provide that protection, which is important in two ways.

We are noting a strong increase in the number of Equifax enrolments, but we are not satisfied with that number. Judging from the current trend, we fear that, at the end of the day, only 20% or 25% of our members will sign up for Equifax. That still leaves people without coverage who choose not to use the alert system for their own reasons. However, we do not want to leave 75% or 80% of our members without any protection. We want to provide them with an assistance service in case something happens. That is what led to this morning's announcement. We want to go beyond the Equifax protection and provide our members with umbrella-type coverage.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yesterday, I experienced something while communicating with Equifax. Its website was down, and I called the company. Finally, between 45 minutes and one hour later, I could sign up.

In eastern Ontario, the Desjardins Group caisses are very popular and very represented in communities. Employees are trained to help seniors who cannot go online to enrol. I am lucky to go online and to check my credit report daily, but what about my grandmother, for instance? Will someone from Desjardins let her know that there has been movement in her credit report?

[Denis Berthiaume]

Yes, that is the new solution we just launched. We will get organized to ensure that people can sign up for Equifax. Then, instead of Equifax contacting the individual by email, Desjardins will liaise between Equifax and the person. We will receive alerts and make sure they are real, and then we will contact the affected members, like your grandmother, in a way that suits them. That is what we are implementing.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

[Guy Cormier]

I would like to briefly point out what the key message is. The Desjardins Group quickly decided to be transparent and to provide the information on June 20. When we looked at the data of 2.7 million people, we realized that some people did not have Internet access. There were also estate accounts. Situations arose, and we saw that we had to innovate and find solutions to them. So far, for all those cases, we are collaborating well with the Equifax people. They are helping us find a different solution, including for people like your grandmother.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Motz, you have five minutes.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being here, gentlemen.

If we're to believe the information that we received, approximately 200,000 Canadians outside of Quebec have been impacted by this particular situation. Do you know about how many in each province were impacted?

[Denis Berthiaume]

The affected members are primarily in Quebec. There are some affected members in Ontario and very few in other provinces. We are talking about people who no doubt moved to other provinces and are members of Desjardins. That is an important aspect. They are affected Desjardins members.

Clients of State Farm or Patrimoine Aviso, which are our partners, are unaffected. We are talking about only caisse members who may have moved to other provinces or members of our caisses in Ontario.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Okay.

You mentioned that you purchased State Farm in 2015. You're saying that none of them are impacted.

[Denis Berthiaume]

They are not impacted at all, no.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

In 2017 you created Aviso Wealth. That was the combination of a merged Credential Financial, Qtrade Canada and NEI Investments. Those all merged.

[Denis Berthiaume]

That's correct.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Were any of those impacted?

[Denis Berthiaume]

Those were not impacted at all outside of the scope of what we talked about—

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

What about previous Desjardins clients whose accounts were closed? Has any of their data been impacted?