Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
There would be no impact.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Mr. Smith, I'm sorry, but I didn't hear your answer.
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Broadly speaking, there would be no impact. It's theoretically possible that someone could make a muzzle-loading variant of an AR-15, which would be captured as a variant, but that's highly unlikely. Generally speaking, no, they would not be affected.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Therefore, folks at home who have black powder firearms can rest easy.
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
They're still subject to all the other rules and regulations for firearms, but this particular series of amendments that are before the committee would not impact muzzle-loading firearms in any significant fashion.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Switching gears a little bit, recognizing we don't have a lot of time left, I want to get a couple of things out there that I think are important for folks to understand. We've heard terms like rimfire and centrefire. Those of us who have taken the time to understand this law, understand this legislation, understand what “centrefire” and “rimfire” mean. I think we have a good understanding of why some things are banned and some things are not.
Can you explain what these two terms mean?
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Sure, the terms “rimfire” and “centrefire” refer to how a cartridge is constructed. In the case of centrefire ammunition, the primer is located in the centre of the cartridge base, hence centrefire, and the primer consists of a small capsule of shock-sensitive explosive that is ignited when struck by the firearm pin of the firearm. There's a small hole between the pocket that the primer sits in that connects it with the interior of the cartridge, which contains the propellant powder. When the cartridge is fired, the firing pin strikes the primer, and the blow to the primer causes the propellant inside that to ignite, which produces a flame that goes through the small hole—that's called a flash hole—connected to the interior of the cartridge case, which ignites the main powder charge, which then propels the bullet down the bore.
In contrast, rimfire cartridges are manufactured with the shock-sensitive priming composition located around the rim of the cartridge. When the cartridge is fired, the firing pin crushes the priming composition between the two sides of the rim, which causes ignition. After that, it works the same as for centrefire.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Rimfire cartridges are, for practical reasons, these days limited to what are ordinarily called .22s, so a .22 long, .22 short, .22 long rifle, .22 Magnum, and perhaps a few other cartridges as well. There's a .17 calibre rimfire, for instance. There are a handful of cartridges that are in common use today. Historically, there was a broad range of rimfire calibres, but today the market forces have compressed them to a relatively small number. These are generally lower power cartridges, the reason being that the design of the rimfire cartridge case is not as strong as a centrefire cartridge case and cannot withstand pressures as high. The nature of the design limits the rimfire calibres to relatively low energies.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
What about centrefire? What kinds of guns would use centrefire?
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
For centrefire there is no limit, really. The centrefires range from very small calibres to huge military calibres.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Okay. Just turning to schedules 1 and 2, are any of the new firearms that have not previously been prohibited rimfire firearms?
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I believe you are referring to schedule 2 and clause 97 onwards. Yes, there are some rimfires mentioned in those sections.
12:50 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The firearms that are in that list are based on the same criteria as the May 2020 list, except that the conditions of modern manufacture or modern design and large quantities present in Canada have been removed. Those criteria from May 2020 do not draw a distinction between firearms that are chambered for rimfire calibres versus centrefire calibres. It's only happenstance that the nine families prohibited in May 2020 were all centrefire.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Technical Specialist, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It means that the selection of firearms for the new schedule, in clause 97 onwards, are based on the characteristics of the firearm, of which the calibre is but one factor, and that a firearm may merit inclusion on the list even though it is chambered for a rimfire calibre.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Ms. Clarke, then, as you....
I'm sorry. You thought you were off the hook.
12:55 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Mr. Smith has been very generous with his wisdom. He just talked a little bit about the definitions and how and why certain of these rimfires have ended up on the list. Going back to the list, and going back to the list that we're hoping to see today, what degree of confidence and comfort does your team have that indeed everything on that list meets the criteria that were outlined by you?
12:55 p.m.
Director, Strategic Policy, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I think that's probably a question for the Canadian firearms program.
We have confidence that with that additional list in schedule 2 it meets the main criteria from May 1, which, again, was semi-automatic sustained rapid fire, of military or tactical design, and capable of accepting a large-capacity magazine. We've used the exact same criteria that was given to us from May 1. The only difference in schedule 2 is that the elements or the criteria of modern design have been removed, and the volume or prevalence in the Canadian market has also been removed. Essentially, the list was designed based on the same first criteria.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
In the main, if people were looking at the 2020 criteria and made decisions accordingly.... You mentioned a couple of additional criteria, but the fundamental nature of the criteria is exactly what was proposed and utilized in the OIC from two and a half years ago. Is that correct?
12:55 p.m.
Director, Strategic Policy, Canadian Firearms Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's correct.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Okay.
I do struggle, then, with the idea that somehow this is something that's been much more conflated, but I think today, in terms of where we are so far in this conversation, has been very useful. I think we have learned—
