Public Safety Committee on May 10th, 2023

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Just to be clear, this is about adding magazines to the list of items that you need a licence in order to transfer. It's not a simple possession.

Can somebody clarify that this isn't something as innocuous as farmer Joe going out to the field, shooting gophers, leaving his magazine in the truck while he puts his firearm away in a locker, and then getting stuck in the field while his wife comes to get in the truck with a magazine in it? Is that a transfer? How does the law see that? For those who understand rural life, this is about as common as a cup of coffee in the morning.

Can I get some clarity on this?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

The word “transfer” is defined as to barter, sell or give. Leaving it in the car, truck or automobile is not a transfer. It's really more sales that we're talking about in terms of acquiring a magazine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, let us conduct a vote.

(Amendment agreed to on division)

We go now to G-42, in the name of Mr. Noormohamed.

Ms. Damoff, would you like to move this one?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I would, Chair.

This is another one of those coordinating amendments on firearm parts, which we have dealt with quite extensively already tonight. We have three of them coming up in a row. Hopefully these ones will go a little bit quicker. It's just adding the words “firearm part” to reflect the amendments that we've all adopted unanimously previously.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Is there any discussion?

Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Maybe this is a question for the government or the officials. I'm not sure. It's for whoever wants to take it up.

What is the effect as it relates to transferring a firearms part that, in and of itself, wouldn't pose a threat?

I can imagine a lot of things that would notionally constitute parts of firearms that, themselves, wouldn't pose any danger. How is that understood, and what's the importance of including that reference?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Thank you for the question.

Earlier, there was a motion to define a firearm part as a barrel or handgun slide, parts that are difficult to make. People tend to acquire them in order to be able to assemble illegally made firearms or ghost guns. Requiring people to have a licence to acquire or import a barrel or handgun slide are measures that the government is proposing in order to address ghost guns.

You already need a licence in order to buy ammunition. It would be the same one that would be applying for these two kinds of parts, as well as for import.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you for that answer.

Realistically, can many of these parts be made with 3-D printers these days?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

These two parts are ones that are harder to make. People tend to go and acquire them, either buying them online or from stores or whatnot, whereas other parts are easier to fabricate using 3-D printers. These are ones that people will actually go out and buy, rather than trying to make. They're highly machined metal pieces that are not easy to make, necessarily, on a 3-D printer.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The goal of this provision is to limit the transfer of the parts that are harder to make. It's narrowly defined to that. Whereas, the transfer of parts that are relatively easy to make is not covered by the definition. Is that right?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Right, so those ones, for example, a spring could be.... There are many components in a firearm. It's not every single part of a firearm that is considered for this measure.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can I also just follow up on the transfer to a non-resident? Can that transfer happen inside of Canada to a non-resident? Are there geographical limitations on where that transfer happens?

I'm talking about proposed subsection (2), which says, “Subject to the regulations and despite subsection (1), a person may transfer a firearm part to a non-resident” provided certain conditions.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

We do have non-residents who come to Canada. I believe there was a question we had in the fall about people who bring firearms with them, for example, for recreational hunting. If they were to need a part while they were in Canada in order to be able to repair their firearm then we want them—again if they follow the appropriate process—just like people when they bring firearms to Canada, to be able to, for example, acquire ammunition or acquire the parts they need.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

A person can come to Canada who doesn't have a firearms licence and may make that acquisition? Doesn't that undermine...? I'm just trying to think how this works, but it seems unusual that there are certain privileges available to non-residents that aren't available to residents when it comes to acquiring these things.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Non-residents when they come to Canada get essentially—and I don't know the exact term for it, I'll turn to my colleagues—something like a temporary firearms licence when they enter Canada with their firearm.

[Rob Mackinnon]

It's actually called a non-resident declaration, and it's valid for a 60-day period for the non-resident. That acts as a temporary licence while the individual has the firearm within Canada.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Effectively they adhere to a different kind of licensing process, but they're still subject to a licensing process. The exception is more formal than substantive. Is that...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We're going to have to end it there.

If you can do a 15-second response, go ahead.

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Can you repeat again?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just to quickly clarify—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

I'm sorry. Your time is up. If the officials had enough time to answer the question we could have a quick answer, but we'll have to—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

They wanted me to clarify the question. I was just trying to clarify.

Effectively with this paragraph there's no substantive difference. Canadians have to get a licence; non-residents have to get a licence. It's just a different kind of licence. This is saying that if you don't have licence A but you do have licence B, the same thing applies. Is that correct?

[Rachel Mainville-Dale]

Essentially it's treating it exactly like ammunition today.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

All right.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Are there any further interventions?

Let's have the vote.