Evidence of meeting #74 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Mr. Chair, I just asked if you ruled on his motion—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
I wasn't finished with my question. He made a motion and then began to speak to the motion—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
On a point of order, Chair, you don't have to let her finish. You're the chair of the committee, and she is under the impression that she is the chair of the committee at this meeting—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Doug Shipley
I'm not done talking. I'll give you that when I'm done.
We have gone back and forth on points of order. I have heard yours, Ms. McConnell. Mr. Genuis mentioned he had a point of order. Mr. Genuis, what was your point of order?
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
I wanted to comment on the rules that govern whether motions are in order or not, because Ms. O'Connell said that—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
—my motion was not in order.
I believe—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Doug Shipley
Ms. O'Connell, we'll hear his point of order first, and then I'll come back to you.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
It's a well-established rule of committees that if a motion is on the matter at hand, notice is not required. Any motion can be moved on the matter at hand, provided there is not another motion on the floor. There was no other motion on the floor. The matter at hand was what it was, and I moved a motion in accordance with that matter at hand.
Furthermore, there is no direct conflict with the motion that was previously adjourned. Even so, you can propose to resume consideration of a previously adjourned motion, provided that something has happened in between.
Anyway, that's not what my motion was.
I wonder if the clerk can provide more clarity on the issue of “matter at hand” to the committee. That might be helpful for Ms. O'Connell in understanding how these things are typically adjudicated.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Doug Shipley
It's not appropriate for the clerk to be part of the debate.
Go ahead, Ms. O'Connell.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
My question asked if you had ruled on whether the motion was in order. The motion was read, and then Mr. Genuis began debate. I recognize if you want to hear his debate, but that was not my question. I questioned if the motion was in order, and he finished his motion and began debate.
I'm asking if his motion, as read, was in order.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Doug Shipley
According to the clerk, through his information to me, because I'm not an expert, Ms. O'Connell, yes, I have the right to take that motion as being in order.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you.
With that, I challenge the chair's ruling.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Mr. Chair, before the vote, can you have the clerk clarify that if you support the challenge, the vote is yes? Is that correct? If you don't support the challenge to the chair or if—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Just on a point of order, the member moves a dilatory motion and then wants to debate it further—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
No, I am asking if the clerk can provide clarification for the vote.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Maybe the member should have sought clarification about whether it's in order. She appears to be confident that she knows the rules better than the chair and the clerk.