Status of Women Committee on May 8th, 2007

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Committee members, we are ready to start our meeting. We are discussing the economic security of women and we have before us the following witnesses: from the Canadian Teachers' Federation, Noreen O'Haire, director, and John Staple, deputy secretary general; and from the Registered Practical Nurses Association of Ontario, Sheri Oliver, who is the director.

As you have been notified, there are 10 minutes of speaking. Are you going to be sharing your time? Yes? We are clock watchers, so we will watch the clock. It'll beep at you, and as long as you watch me signalling you, you will know that your time is up.

After you finish speaking, we will go to the round of questions, and after the questions, we will have you wrap up for a minute each.

There are votes today at 5:30, so the meeting will go on until 5 o'clock so we can discuss our committee business for 15 minutes.

Ms. O'Haire, are you going to start or do you want Sheri to start?

Ms. Oliver, for 10 minutes.

[Sheri Oliver, Director, Strategic Nursing Initiatives, Registered Practical Nurses Association of Ontario]

Certainly, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and good afternoon. My name is Sheri Oliver and I'm the director of Strategic Nursing Initiatives with the Registered Practical Nurses Association and we're known as RPNAO.

As I suspect many of you already know, the RPNAO is the voluntary professional association for registered practical nurses within the province of Ontario who are registered to practise in Ontario under the Nursing Act of 1991 and the Regulated Health Professions Act of the same year. The RPNAO is also a member organization of PN Canada, the national professional organization for practical nurses. We appreciate the opportunity to be here today.

I would like to brief you about one of Ontario's practical nurses and, in doing so, perhaps correct some of the misunderstandings that we characteristically encounter.

As I've indicated, registered practical nurses are regulated health care professionals and are known as RPNs in Ontario. In other jurisdictions you will know practical nurses as LPNs or licensed practical nurses. We constitute the second largest regulated health care profession. In Ontario both RNs and RPNs share the same statutory scope of practice and study from the same body of knowledge.

While you will find both RNs and RPNs in all health care sectors, they differ primarily in the populations with which they practise. Those differences relate to the depth and breadth of education received, and I'll speak more to the availability of education in just a moment.

Since January 1, 2005, new graduates applying to register to practise as an RPN with the College of Nurses of Ontario must have a two-year diploma in nursing from a community college of applied arts and technology. Across Canada there are over 64,000 practical nurses, of which half, 29,000, are from Ontario.

Now, with that as background, I would like to recount some of the issues facing the profession that are relevant to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. Ninety-four percent of RPNs are female. As such, we experience many of the challenges that face other female professionals in the workforce, and some are unique.

The majority of RPNs work shift work, weekends, and holidays. Having access to quality, affordable, and flexible child care is an issue consistently raised by our membership. For RPNs, having access to child care isn't a frill or a luxury; it is essential to allow them to practise and to contribute the human resources that our health care system desperately needs.

Financial security is also a major issue for many RPNs. Salaries for the RPN vary widely in Ontario. The best salaries for RPNs are available in hospitals, where a full-time RPN can earn between $42,000 and $47,000 annually, not much in today's economy, especially given the onerous responsibilities that nurses encounter on a daily basis.

Every day nurses face physically and emotionally taxing situations that are inherent to their chosen profession. For example, registered practical nurses working in the long-term care or community sectors have extremely large workloads, practise at high levels of autonomy, yet receive some of the lowest overall wages in provincial health care. But the RPNs who do have full-time employment, especially those who have full-time employment in hospitals, are relatively fortunate in our profession.

This statistic will surprise you, given all you've heard about a nursing shortage, but only 55% of RPNs in Ontario are able to find full-time work. There are about 2,000 in Ontario today, about 7% of the total profession, who are looking for full or part-time employment. Some are currently employed as unregulated health care providers or have jobs outside of health care. This is a chronic problem for our profession. l suspect you'll agree that it makes absolutely no sense during a so-called nursing shortage that much needed health care professionals are unable to find employment within the health care system.

I am sure you can also appreciate the systemic stressors that the lack of secure employment has on their own personal health, the well-being of their children, and attempts to balance personal and professional lifestyles as we encroach deeper into a sandwich generation. Our members describe the ability to find secure full-time work in their profession while controlling their overtime hours as their most important work life aspiration.

The Government of Ontario has put financial incentives in place to increase full-time employment opportunities for nurses, but the uptake of those initiatives by health care organizations has been greater for the registered nurse, and as a result, their full-time employment has improved at a much greater rate than that of the RPN. In fact, RPNs have seen little improvement in the availability of full-time employment.

Women, as a group, are less able or willing to accept a job or job advancement that will adversely affect their ability to care for their families. Accordingly, female professions must tolerate lower job security, limited career advancement opportunities, and less financial security.

You may ask yourselves how we find ourselves in this very peculiar situation of having a significant number of unemployed or under-employed RPNs in a time of a shortage of nurses. There are several factors at play.

One is a misunderstanding by hospitals and other health care delivery organizations about the competencies of RPNs. In Ontario, some hospitals have decided to implement an all-RN model, believing that this will result in higher-quality care. RPNs who were working in those hospitals were laid off or dismissed outright.

This all-RN model usually reflects studies done in the United States. l must point out, however, that licensed practical nurses in the United States are not educated to the same level as registered practical nurses in Ontario and do not have the same skill sets. Accordingly, those American studies do not reflect the knowledge, skill, and judgment that RPNs acquire.

We know that access to and availability of education has a positive impact on health care outcomes. However, for the practical nurse, educational opportunities related to collective agreements, child care opportunities, lack of employment recognition, and barriers in the educational system limit the impact these nurses can have and, in turn, are less able to manage educational opportunities available.

The second factor is that, for a number of historical reasons, RPNs are represented by multiple unions and are usually a very small component of those union memberships. It's completely understandable, therefore, that those unions rarely give RPNs' issues much priority. Registered nurses, on the other hand, have their own union that has focused exclusively on their issues.

The third factor is that RPNs are rarely found in management positions in health care organizations, most particularly hospitals. The heads of nursing are almost always registered nurses, and quite frankly and unfortunately, there's inevitably some intra-professional turf protection.

One final point I want to make, about which women in general encounter in the workplace, is one that is rarely discussed openly, and that is verbal abuse. Particularly in the high-pressure, high-stress environment of health care, verbal abuse directed at nurses and other female workers still frequently occurs. The ability to withstand verbal abuse is seen to be part of your job description as a nurse. Few nurses complain about or report verbal abuse, because doing so may be career limiting and because few health care organizations have effective reporting procedures or whistle-blowing protections in place. The same challenges exist in reporting verbal abuse to the professional regulatory bodies. So verbal abuse continues to be an unfortunate part of the job for nurses.

Madam Chair, I've almost exhausted my 10-minute allocation, so I shall stop now in order to leave as much time as possible for questions.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much.

We shall now go to Mr. Staple or Ms. O' Haire.

Mr. Staple.

[John Staple, Deputy Secretary General, Canadian Teachers' Federation]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you very much to the committee for this opportunity to appear and speak to you about the teachers' concerns relative to the issues that affect the committee's work.

The Canadian Teachers' Federation is a national voice of teachers. We represent over 220,000 teachers in primary and secondary schools across Canada. We are a national bilingual umbrella organization and we're made up of 16 provincial and territorial member organizations and one affiliate member.

We believe we come from the premise, in dealing with issues of this nature, that strong social cohesion for all Canadians is an investment in the long-term prosperity of Canada. From that perspective, we believe that investing in children and in families is the most effective way to develop active and engaged citizens who will offer the most and contribute the most to the Canadian social and economic environment.

We've just held a national conference here in Ottawa over the past weekend on the whole issue of education for social justice, and many of the things we were talking about in that conference and dealing with are germane to the issues that are addressed by this committee.

Noreen was chair of that conference, so I will turn to her to continue on with the material and the issues we wish to raise.

[Noreen O'Haire, Director, Professional and Developmental Services, Canadian Teachers' Federation]

Thank you, John.

Thank you to the committee.

The conference was a rousing success. If we seem a little tired, it's because we were running hard for the last three days, getting that finished. Thank you, again.

I'm going to talk a little bit about the numbers of women in teaching, and then move from that into a more general look at women in terms of society in general, and then turn it back to John for some of our suggested remedies.

In 2003-04, 67% of full-time Canadian teachers were women and 78% of part-time Canadian teachers were women—Stats Canada figures, and they relate with ours as well. It's interesting to note that 57% of male teachers in the 2001 census reported earnings of $50,000 or more compared with only 37% of female teachers at the same time, for the same education. In 2001, 26% of male teachers earned under $40,000 compared to 26% of female teachers.

Lower average salaries of female teachers result in lower average pensions for female teachers, so that not only is there less buying power currently in their career, they are also saddled with this lower economic status for the rest of their life and their pensionable service.

It's interesting to note that women occupy only approximately 45% of school administrator positions in spite of the fact that they represent 67%. That fact alone is also one of the factors in why their salaries are lower, because of course, administrators receive an allocation, a bonus for being administrators.

That's changing gradually. In our elementary schools we're seeing more women become administrators. But it's still true that it's a male-dominated profession at the high school level.

The average earnings of employed women are still substantially lower than those of men, even when they're employed on a full-time basis. In 2003, women working full-time, full-year, had an average earning of $35,000—71% of what their male counterparts made.

Women are more affected by chronic unemployment than men, particularly female lone parents. Lone women had the highest degree of volatility in earnings of any family type during the last two decades, as noted by Stats Canada.

Earnings over the past two decades have been stagnant for men, increasing in 2000 for the first time since 1980. The good news is that in contrast to that, earnings have increased steadily in each decade for women. So some of the work that committees like yours have done and the work of the teachers' and nurses' associations has begun to bear fruit. However, despite gains in earnings over the past two decades, women still earn less than men, not only in teaching but right across the board.

Women have made gains in employment because of increased hours and weeks of work, and notably because they have invested heavily in higher education, leading to better-paying occupations. Income of women in the early years of their careers, though, is affected by many factors—child care, access to unemployment, provisions for top-up from such things as maternity leave, and of course, bearing the brunt of their children's educational costs.

Therefore, the cuts in programs like the status of women program and the literacy skills that have happened over the last little while have definitely reduced the probability of improvement of circumstances for women and other groups. As John mentioned earlier, we believe that programs focused on helping children will do much to help those women as well.

I'll turn it back over to John for some of our suggestions.

[John Staple]

As an organization, we have been long saying that early intervention and enhanced learning opportunities at early ages are keys to long-term prosperity and social cohesion for all Canadians. In that regard, programs and services that strengthen families are the targets we attempt to advocate for.

We think it's important to take a very, very close look at what we are doing in Canada with respect to child care. We would argue that the reinstatement of the funding agreements reached with the provinces and territories to establish 100,000 more child care spaces is a laudable goal. It should be a target for any government.

We have major concerns with respect to the funding of first nation child welfare agencies. We would recommend strongly that they be funded so they can deliver community-based in-home support and prevention services to their clientele.

We are now entering an era where greater numbers of immigrant and refugee children are entering our schools. The demographics of the country would lead us to conclude that this is not a short-term phenomenon but one that we will be facing for many years. Schools need assistance. Parents, teachers, and students need assistance, particularly in resources for English and French as second language school programs, but also including programs for teachers and parents that address cultural differences and language skills building.

We have long held that increased access to unemployment benefits for maternity, adoption, and parental benefits will have a significant impact on the economic security of women in their younger years. We would also like to see a greater degree of encouragement at the policy development level for the growth of top-up provisions in contracts of employment. When you lose that portion of income at the front end of a career, it impacts all those benefits that one would accrue along the way. That is why female teachers--even though the pay scales are the same as for male teachers--will have an average income that is below male teachers.

We are suggesting an increase in the drop-out provisions of the CPP/QPP for those who leave the labour force to raise children under the age of seven. We have reviewed recent studies that show that women still contribute much more time to household duties than men. In addition, they are more intensively engaged in elder care than are men. Sheri's comment about the sandwich generation was interesting. That's precisely where we are.

We believe that assistance for elder care is a significant component of the economic security for women, particularly in the 40- to 60-year age group. Increased access to family care leave benefits under the employment insurance program would help considerably in this regard, as would additional recognition for drop-out time under the CPP/QPP. If drop-out time is legitimate for addressing issues related to young children, it should be equally legitimate for addressing drop-out periods for elder care.

Senior widows outnumber senior widowers four to one. As measured by Stats Canada, many senior women slip into low income as a result of widowhood and stay there for a longer period of time than others. We believe changes can be made to the CPP to avoid that, or at least minimize it. One of them is that where a retired contributor to CPP/QPP dies and leaves a surviving spouse, the spouse should receive a survivor's benefit that is unaffected by any other benefit paid to the individual under CPP/QPP.

I will stop there, Chair, and look forward to questions or comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We will start with the first round of questions.

Ms. Minna, for seven minutes.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for your presentation. All of you were very good.

It's not an easy area to solve, because it's very broad and many different pieces affect it. You have women's economic security, and I think we all agree with that, just from the three who have presented today.

I want to start off with Ms. Oliver, with respect to the RPN part-time work. One of the reasons that were given when the agreement with the provinces on our child care was dropped was that we needed a system that gave everybody choice, so that women who worked nights or days or shifts could then choose where they liked to put their money. This is why we have the $1,200, which is taxable, as you know, and it doesn't create spaces at all. No spaces have been created since.

Can you tell me a little bit about the reality? You mentioned the dire need for child care, but can you address the part-time aspect of it specifically and what structure would help in that context, keeping in mind that when the national government funds child care, as we did under the agreement we had before with the provinces, we don't dictate how to deliver; it's more or less a broad objective.

[Sheri Oliver]

Not knowing much about how they're delivered through the continuum, nurses, particularly practical nurses, the greater majority of whom work casual or part-time, many times will get their shifts 24 hours in advance. You may not know from a tour of duty, which is about two weeks long from tour to tour, whether you're going to have work or not. Speaking from a personal perspective, you can't very well register your child in a full-time day care not knowing if you're going to have day care or if you're going to have shifts to pay for the day care.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That's a fair comment. I needed to understand that.

Just to continue with the child care aspect. Mr. Staple or Ms. O'Haire, you both mentioned the reinstatement of the provincial-federal agreement that was in place before. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but I know that in Ontario they were calling it the Best Start program. A lot of it was being designed out of the schools; some of the schools are being retrofitted to provide early education in child care. One of the things that were important to me and to all my colleagues was that it's about early education. It's not just about looking after the child; it's also about development for the child.

Can you tell us if you would reinstate the agreement as it was or if you would make any changes? I obviously support the reinstatement of the agreement, but would you add anything else that wasn't there, in your view, in the previous agreement?

[John Staple]

Another 100,000 spaces.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That's fair. Since we're a year or two behind, I would add a couple of hundred.

[John Staple]

I think that's it.

Let me speak from a personal perspective. I have a daughter who lives in St. John's, Newfoundland. The monthly money for child care to her is totally inadequate. Number one, she can't find a space anywhere that's worthwhile, and number two, if she did, the amount of money wouldn't come close to providing the kind of assistance she needs under her circumstances for the child care in question. I assisted both her and her partner with their taxes and I was absolutely shocked at the way the item is treated under tax. You can't even claim it from the highest income. To me, it's not answering the question, it's not answering the need.

First of all, we have to wrap our heads how many spaces we need and then the kinds of spaces we need. It's fine to have a space, but if nothing happens within that space, then—

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Go ahead.

[Noreen O'Haire]

Picking up on your question, in terms of the fact that it's not just child care, it optimally is early childhood development, which is so critical to success for children later on in their careers. If you examine the wages that are paid to these workers, you'll agree that you are not going to attract people with minimum wages who are capable of developing and delivering adequate early childhood development programs. I think parents are always looking for the very best care for their children. When you leave your child in someone else's hands, you hope for the best, and the wages being paid to many of the child care workers are just not adequate.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Right, and upgrading the income was part of the component.

[Sheri Oliver]

I have to carry on with a point that John made in terms of the number of spaces that are available. There may be an adequate number of spaces for nurses. Health care is 24 hours. So if you're working part-time or casual and you get a call to go in to work, it might be a night shift and you don't have day care.

So there needs to be flexibility in terms of how these numbers are actually allocated.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

We have to be innovative, and that would be at the delivery end.

I still have a minute, so quickly, I'll go to Mr. Staple and Ms. O'Haire.

With respect to the teachers, you mentioned the differentiation in income of teachers, men versus women. That leads one to ask about the issue of pay equity or equal pay, which is a major—Now in Ontario and Quebec, pay equity exists. We, at the national level, still don't have legislation, but across the country, I imagine in other provinces, it's not there.

So there are the two issues: one is equal pay for work of equal value, and the other is equal pay for the same work done. And you're telling me that some teachers have lower incomes than men. So could you give us an idea of your position on pay equity, specifically? Then, of course, equal pay is another one. Why is that still a major issue across this country?

[John Staple]

Do you want to give the position on pay equity, and I'll talk about the salaries?

[Noreen O'Haire]

Well, teachers are paid the same. If you have the same level of education and the same level of experience, men and women are paid the same, so the actual salary is the same.

What we were talking about is average salary, because then you take into account the fact that women leave for childbearing. They don't get the increments when they should, and things of that nature. So it's equal pay for equal work, but the effect of some of the conditions that women obviously can't or don't—It makes a difference in the average salary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Did you want to respond, Mr. Staple?

[John Staple]

I'll give just a very short answer.

The salary scales for teachers are based on service and qualifications. So the difficulty that female teachers have is in catching up on the qualifications end. Being out of the workforce for periods of time does not enable them to undertake the same level of training as men are able to. Consequently, they are able to reach higher points on the salary grid than women do at much earlier phases of their lives. They may catch up, but overall, there's that pullback, and it affects overall pension and everything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We will now go to Madame Deschamps, for sept minutes, s'il vous plaît.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses and thank them for appearing before the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

I listened to your presentations carefully, both that of the nurses and that of the teachers. I was very surprised to discover that among teachers, a vast majority of women are still disadvantaged compared to men in the year 2007.

I would like to ask you a question regarding the document you provided for our information.

Do you think that in order to ensure greater economic security for women, the government should give priority to policies on equity and equality, and that if the principles of justice and integration were included as part of the foundation of our society, it would be more democratic?

[John Staple]

I'm not sure how far you go. The teaching profession is one that has stood very solidly on the principle of equal pay for equal work. We have stood solidly on issues of equity in employment, at all levels, and still within our own profession and within our own organizations, when we combine the totality of the effect of a lifetime of work, we still have situations and circumstances in which the female component of our organization, which is the largest component, will still earn on average, over a lifetime, less than the male component.

The conditions that significantly affect that, we maintain, are child care and child raising and, on the other end, elder care.