Status of Women Committee on March 25th, 2021

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

We are still looking for solutions. What additional measures should be taken to curtail, if not eliminate, sexual misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces? You put forward recommendations, but seven have yet to be implemented. Perhaps the issue has been considered and discussed further since then. Do you think other measures should be implemented?

[Marie Deschamps]

As I indicated, someone else could be asked to take a fresh look at the problem or new blood could be brought in to examine the current situation. Having been outside the system for six years, I can't recommend anything concrete other than—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's your time.

Now we will go to Ms. Mathyssen for the final two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to use my two and half minutes to hopefully have Madam Deschamps answer a question I have. It is around that authority, ensuring that the women placed in authority have the support they need.

I know there are education programs now, but are they sufficient and do you have recommendations around that?

[Marie Deschamps]

As I mentioned, I don't have any further recommendations, because I don't know what's going on right now. It's been six years now. I know, for example, that the advocate I just mentioned exists, but this function doesn't hold.... It's only a tiny portion of what I designed. If they can start with putting in place my recommendations, that would be a start.

There may be more to do. I don't know. I have not been there.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I heard that often the education portion is extremely limited. While it may happen every year, it's extremely short. It's not maybe taken as seriously.

Did you see ways that could be enhanced—maybe not the direct education or the specific steps, but that focus on education?

[Marie Deschamps]

The Canadian Armed Forces has been very good at tackling other issues. For example, they tackled...not completely, but they did a lot of work with alcohol consumption. It took a lot of effort.

If they can just gather their efforts to do the same kind of control that they are doing on alcohol consumption.... They were subsidizing it. They stopped doing that. It was an open bar very often. They stopped doing that. They put limits. They could think of measures. They did that.

In the matter of mental illness, they have more programs on this.

If they can just use the tools that they already have in place for other issues, that would be a good start.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We just have to find the will to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I want to thank Madam Deschamps for her excellent testimony today.

Thank you so much for being with the committee.

[Marie Deschamps]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we have a bit of committee business to do .

Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As we discussed, it's the will of multiple members to proceed with a brief discussion of committee business. Members have busy schedules in their constituencies. I'm worried about the clerks and the interpretation staff working on over 28 committees.

Madam Chair, for purpose and clarity, I have a motion that will be sent to all members in both official languages.

With regard to the motion, I move the following:

That, regarding the committee’s study of sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces, each party be invited to submit their priority-ranked witnesses to the clerk by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on Wednesday, March 31, 2021, and these witnesses be invited by the clerk based on the schedule of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

As that's a dilatory motion, there is no debate on that motion.

Clerk, I would invite you to take the vote.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Madam Chair, as a point of order, there's no.... I just want to clarify, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

My understanding is that, when there's a motion like that, it's a dilatory motion. It's not subject to any discussion. It just goes to an immediate vote.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

On a point of order, can we clarify with the clerk that it's a dilatory motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Yes.

Clerk, if you have an opinion, now's a good time for it.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Stephanie Bond]

In my opinion, it is not a dilatory motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Okay. Well, I'm to the will of the committee, then. If there's discussion about the motion, I'll hear it.

Ms. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I agree with my colleague, Ms. Sidhu.

Next week, we have the constituency week, and I think it will not be appropriate to take time out of the constituency week.

I know it is an important study. We can have the list of the witnesses submitted by next week and then schedule those witnesses. The list of witnesses is intended to make sure that, if we don't have one witness, we can always go to the next one. If all the parties can submit their witness list next week, then we can schedule once we come back after the constituency week.

I think it will not be fair to us in terms of fulfilling our responsibilities as members of Parliament towards our constituents, and also for the interpreters and analysts who have been working so hard in adapting to new norms virtually. Let's be fair to everyone and have the meeting after the constituency weeks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Yes, and if we can settle this point today, then I will certainly be willing to cancel the scheduled Tuesday meeting.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

These are more just points of clarification. One of the reasons for the motion was that we wanted to ensure that all witnesses were heard. This was because, previously, that was not the will of the committee, so we wanted to reinforce the will of the committee that specific witnesses were heard. I understand some witnesses aren't available at specific times, so supplementing that is all right. That was always available to every member of the committee.

However, I want to make sure we understand that those witnesses need to be in place as much as possible. I would also like to know and make sure that once we submit one list of witnesses.... From my point of view, I wanted to hear specifically from all of the witnesses on that list, see if there were holes—as we've determined in other studies, sometimes holes can happen—in the testimony and then be able to add to that.

I'm quite happy to bring forward witnesses by March 31, but will I have an opportunity to do that again if I feel that there are still things that need to be heard from others? We can do the research and work with the analysts, who are incredible, and the clerk, who is incredible, to ensure that we fill those holes, but I want to make sure that's not going to be limited for this as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

It's always the will of the committee to add additional meetings and additional witnesses to studies as they go through them. I would just clarify that on the list of witnesses specified in the motion, several of those cannot appear before April 13. They're not available and that was the issue that we had.

Ms. Alleslev.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to then make an amendment to this motion. After “the clerk based on the schedule of the committee”—that's where it ends—add “with two meetings to be held during the week of April 6 to April 9, 2021”.

This motion as it stands says that we would have witnesses by 5 p.m. on Wednesday, March 31, which sounds perfect, and that these witnesses be invited by the clerk based on the schedule of the committee, which is perfect, and then my amendment is to include two meetings during the second break week of April 5 to April 9.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I will hear discussion then on the amendment.

Ms. Zahid.