Status of Women Committee on June 9th, 2026

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

We can continue for a little while, but not during the vote in the House. I would like to go vote in the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

Okay.

Then we will continue the meeting. I will suspend in due course.

Ms. Nguyen, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being with us today.

I will ask my questions in English.

Thank you again for your excellent testimony today and for helping us to understand the context in which shelters are operating in this country.

Ms. Zweep, you talked about some of the best practice work and some of the resources for women's shelters. I would love for you to highlight a couple of those pieces that you found in rolling out this transition housing. I'm also curious as to whether you're experiencing a lot of wait-lists, what the demand is like, and whether or not you're able to meet the needs you're seeing in Thunder Bay.

Then I want to ask about the province's role and whether or not the provincial government is supporting any of your work. You mentioned the municipality and the feds, but I'm curious as to whether the province is stepping in as well.

[Debbie Zweep]

We used the best practices guide from Women's Shelters Canada right from the beginning in regard to programming or what our rooms looked like. There's quite a bit to do on harm reduction. There's the ideal, which I hope we get to someday.

As for what we are doing currently, for instance, when I set up a woman's goals with her as she comes into the second stage, we look at our relapse prevention. We have a document, and we'll work with the woman to say, for instance, “I've had a slip with my substance use. Here's what you're going to see. Here's the plan I have for myself. How will you know if I'm not able to incorporate that plan?” That was extremely useful.

There was a whole conversation around a pet policy. I have a no-pet policy, but there were lots of conversations about what kinds of pets...comfort pets and those kinds of things.

The policy development gave us key points and links to be able to do that.

On second-stage housing, for us, my board built this. The women and children going into that will be women and children who work with Faye Peterson House, so we have lots, for sure. We are going through what we determine in an assessment, based mainly on risk. Marginalization is another one, and so is the ability to live communally. Women come in here first. They get to know each other. We get a bit of an idea of whether they could live with another 55-year-old woman. As it has already been articulated, differences happen at that age.

Can I meet the demand? No, I don't think I'll ever be able to meet the demand for safety. For people who leave the shelter right now, they're here about three months. That might sound like very little to the people in Toronto, but that's double the amount of time we used to have a wait-list for.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you.

Is the provincial government resourcing any of your operational pieces at the moment?

[Debbie Zweep]

Certainly. First-stage shelters are fully supported by MCCSS. Yes, definitely. There's nothing for the second stage though.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you.

Madame Thibaudeau, you also talked a bit about the needs exceeding the capacity. We heard from a witness last week who framed the work of shelters and supports for women fleeing gender violence as core infrastructure. One piece of this is responding to the emergency end.

Do you have any reflections on what we can be doing on the prevention side and what some of that work could look like?

[Claudine Thibaudeau]

It's clear that a great deal of work needs to be done on prevention. Right now, across various platforms, we are seeing a rise in masculinist, anti-feminist and anti-women rhetoric that outright advocates for men's power over women. We will have to create campaigns for young people to counter all this.

At SOS violence conjugale, we launched a campaign for young people a few years ago on the website cestpasviolent.com. It's also available in English at itsnotviolent.com. The campaign is aimed at young people. It's a turnkey platform for any stakeholder who wants to use it in the province or in the country. There are no geographic limitations to this platform.

The idea is that it shouldn't be just shelter workers or resources like ours who are tasked with doing this work. There is far too much work to be done. We will need to broadly mobilize school staff and all professionals working with young people. We will need broader masculinism prevention campaigns.

Young people are being pushed to extremes right now, and men in particular. We are seeing a major divide between women and men. Women are increasingly adopting left-wing ideologies and are becoming more informed about violence, while young men, on the contrary, are increasingly accepting violence or even believing that a woman deserves to be harassed if she doesn't listen.

Some research has recently been done on the topic. So I am very afraid that there will be an increase in violence and risk for women.

[Chi Nguyen, Liberal, Spadina—Harbourfront, ON]

Thank you, Ms. Thibaudeau. I think I have just one minute left.

I'm going to ask questions of Ms. MacGregor and Ms. Boyce.

Ms. MacGregor, we first had the chance to meet when we were announcing Bill C-16. It just passed at report stage yesterday. I'm so proud that our government's been able to support this and work with survivors to make sure we're getting this legislation right.

One concept that I would love for you to unpack with me is the idea of an ideal victim and what that looks like. I know there are real barriers for racialized women in accessing some of the services and making sure they're culturally appropriate. I was wondering if you could speak a bit more in terms of how you approach that at your organization.

[Nneka MacGregor]

Our submission today is really talking about the non-ideal—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

I'm sorry, Ms. MacGregor. I knew you wouldn't have time to continue. You may have an opportunity to elaborate on your point in another exchange.

Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses Ms. Boyce, Ms. MacGregor and Ms. Zweep. I've taken a lot of notes.

I will first turn to Ms. Thibaudeau, from SOS violence conjugale.

Ms. Thibaudeau, in your opening remarks, the figures you provided are somewhat worrisome and alarming. There are also figures regarding your help line. It is able to meet all needs. We can see that the situation is becoming increasingly complex.

Beyond the figures, are you also seeing, through your help line, a shift in the forms of violence, particularly in terms of coercive control or even tech-enabled violence?

In the Protecting Victims Act—the former Bill C‑16—there is, among other things, one aspect that is especially important. That's the recognition that violence is not always physical, but that it always causes pain.

[Claudine Thibaudeau]

Yes, absolutely.

In fact, we've developed two tools on our website that help victims identify various types of violence and recognize the power being exerted over them. That enables victims to more clearly articulate many of the types of violence they experience.

We hear a lot about post-separation violence and judicial violence. Just this morning, a woman testified that she was enrolled in a highly specialized academic program with her partner. She invested $100,000 in her education, but her partner arranged for her to be expelled from the program. That's a situation I'd never heard of before, but it's a type of economic violence.

Indeed, we hear a lot about this. I think there's still a lot of work to be done to help women recognize the types of violence they're experiencing. More than half of the requests we receive through chat and text messages come from people who generally aren't ready to call the helpline. Writing is easier. These are often people who wonder whether what they're experiencing is truly intimate partner violence, or whether it's truly coercive control. They often have a hard time putting their experiences into words, even though what they describe to us is sometimes very serious. It can go as far as choking.

So, we see that people are better able to recognize subtle forms of violence. At the same time, we also see many people who hesitate for a very long time to put their experiences into words for fear of making false accusations, accusing someone wrongly or exaggerating—because it's often said that women exaggerate or misinterpret things.

This means we need to continue doing a lot of work to help people recognize different types of violence. The two interactive tools on our website were used 400,000 times over the past five years, which demonstrates the significant demand for information on this topic. That extends beyond Quebec's borders, by the way.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

What was used 400,000 times over the past five years?

[Claudine Thibaudeau]

There are two interactive tools. The first helps you identify the types of violence you've experienced in your life. The second helps you assess your ability to exercise the power you should be able to exercise in your life. These interactive tools are available online on our website. They are completely anonymous. Together, these two tools have been used over 400,000 times.

Since making them available online, we've seen the number of requests to SOS violence conjugale rise from 25,000 per year to 50,000 or 60,000 per year. That increase is clearly linked to those two tools. They have a huge impact.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

My goodness, well done! Once again, these are some chilling statistics, Ms. Thibaudeau.

I spoke with the Minister of Women and Gender Equality yesterday. She wanted to speak to me. We passed Bill C‑16, the Protecting Victims Act, which strengthened the Criminal Code. That's good. However, given current housing needs, this legislation alone will not be enough to address all the requirements for combatting domestic violence. We really need to view this as a continuum of services. So it's good, but it won't be enough.

The issue of shelters and housing is certainly crucial. Indeed, a woman will not want to break free from the cycle of domestic violence if she cannot afford housing and if she believes that her safety—and especially that of her family and children—is at risk.

You mentioned that, across Quebec, 22.5% of housing units truly met the needs of victims. You also mentioned that on a single day—May 16th—only 18.5% of women could be referred to a shelter. You also spoke about housing located outside the area where the victims live.

Can you tell us more about that?

You said that housing must truly meet the victims' needs. I would add that this also involves accommodating their families. That is extremely important.

[Claudine Thibaudeau]

When we refer someone to a shelter, we first ask them which city they're calling from, how many children they have and whether they have a disability or personal needs that require special attention at the shelter location they're seeking.

Of course, if I refer a woman from Montreal to a shelter and the only spot I can find is in Joliette or Trois-Rivières, there's a good chance that, in the end, she won't be able to agree to travel that far to find safety. There are too many challenges associated with that decision. There are even women who are criticized by organizations—in court, for example—for taking their children 200 kilometres away from their home, even though it was for their safety.

I think we also need to talk about the child protection system. The child protection system can sometimes fall short in its understanding of the reality faced by victims of domestic violence. Sometimes these situations are viewed as mere conflicts rather than violence. I think we need to learn to use the word “violence” to describe violent behaviour. We shouldn't be afraid to do so. Victims must have the right to assert that their situation is a violent one without being blamed for it.

There is still a lot of work to be done to truly shelter women. However, from our perspective, we certainly find it very difficult to be forced to tell women on a daily basis to call us back the next day or the day after that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

What I find difficult, Ms. Thibaudeau, is having to cut you off, unfortunately.

I'm going to have to suspend the meeting because there's a vote. The bells are ringing. There are 15 minutes left. Members who wish to go vote have time to do so. As agreed with the whips and as the clerk has informed me, 10 minutes after the vote begins, if there is quorum here, I can resume the meeting. Obviously, if no one is here, I won't be able to hold it on my own.

The meeting is suspended. There will be about half an hour of the meeting remaining afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dominique Vien]

We will resume the session where we left off before the vote.

Thank you so much for your patience.

Mrs. Roberts, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you to the witnesses for your patience. I know it's a little hectic with understanding these votes. We don't understand them either. It's okay.

I have a question, and I'm going to start with Ms. Debbie Zweep.

Thank you for the work you do.

This committee did a study in 2024. We travelled from coast to coast to coast on human trafficking. I have to tell you, it was very educational for me. One of the things I recently discovered is that the worst provinces in the country for human trafficking are Nova Scotia, Ontario, New Brunswick, Saskatchewan and P.E.I. The worst city—I hate to tell you this—is Thunder Bay.

It is a huge issue—

[Debbie Zweep]

It's a huge issue.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

We need to do better.

I can't even tell you.... I've lost count of how many survivors I've spoken to. They've all said to me that they fear for their life because the penalties do not justify the crime.

[Debbie Zweep]

This is true.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

I know you mentioned earlier that jail is not always the answer, but here is the problem. Even if it's a repeat offender and they go to jail.... I recently did an undercover stint with the York Regional Police. Do you know what they told me? These criminals—I'll call them animals—are still running the business from the jail.

How do we ensure that these survivors, who have the will and the courage to come to testify, are protected, if we can't even protect the criminals who are in jail?

[Debbie Zweep]

Thank you. It's a big question.

Yes, I understand our designation as having the highest HT in the country. Women seeking shelter or any kind of safety may not be able to do that within Thunder Bay. We use the very elaborate shelter system where we transfer people and work with the assistance of the police force to do that.

On the issue of criminals running their criminal activity out of jail, I think we're all well aware of that. I can't actually make that change, but perhaps an internal change of monitoring those activities, which I am sure they do.... It has to change. There has to be a way for us to stop that activity from continuing. It continues in jail, and then that work also continues outside of jail.

As I said to you earlier, a lot of the backups within our criminal justice system here in Thunder Bay have to do with gang substance and, of course, HT criminals going before the court and being released. In some cases, they are being incarcerated, for sure. Incarceration is part of the answer as that first step for repeat, or what I call serious, offenders.

However, I don't have an answer for how we stop that criminal activity from happening within jail. Everyone knows it is a huge issue. Nobody wants it to continue—certainly not the people who work within corrections.