Transport Committee on Jan. 26th, 2023

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Brankley.

I do look forward to the recommendations coming forward that we will put in place, working with you, through the report when it's concluded, to look at those capacities.

For my next question, in retrospect we see what happened, and I do want to hear your thoughts on how your planning for winter storms should have been different. It goes to my earlier question. More specifically, what could Transport Canada—or the minister, for that matter—have done to assist in addressing your challenges at the time? As well, what could any member of the team at Transport Canada have done to assist you in the challenges you were facing at the time?

Also, in looking at the future, what could have been done by Transport Canada and by the minister in particular? We hear the minister's name come up very often in this situation. What could they or he have done and what do you expect they could do in the future to help you with these challenges?

[Michael Brankley]

I'll go back to December 21, with the storm coming. During the events, Transport Canada did reach out to our team. We established communication between our personnel and Transport Canada through the holiday. We maintained updates of status with Transport Canada. In meetings held on the 24th, 25th and 26th, I believe, we worked together to try to find solutions to recover service.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Thank you, Mr. Brankley.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We mentioned that there were perhaps some communication difficulties between VIA Rail and its clients, but also between VIA Rail and CN.

When it comes to its operations, VIA Rail circulates very regularly on CN’s tracks. Because CN is the prime contractor, it’s responsible for maintaining railways. Aside from the crisis in December, do VIA Rail and CN communicate with each other on the state of the tracks and the problems that crop up regularly on certain lines? Or does CN always work alone, without really communicating with VIA Rail?

Your trains roll on those tracks. Your conductors, the people who work at VIA Rail, must have witnessed some incidents.

Isn’t that so?

[Michael Brankley]

Thank you for your question, MP Barsalou-Duval.

We have both regular contacts on a variety of topics and ad hoc contacts during operational disruptions—and operational disruptions not necessarily to the level that we experienced on December 23. With such items as disabled freight trains, there will be contact between our centres to ensure that we have information and we can plan.

I believe I mentioned earlier that we have met with CN and are actively working to improve those communication links and make sure we're more seamless in those communications.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

My next question is also on customer service.

In the case of airlines, when a company is unable to offer its clients a flight, a rule requires it to redirect the passenger to the next available flight leaving within the next 48 hours, no matter which airline, including competitors.

In the case of railways, I understand that a company is not able to send its client to a competitor's train, because there aren't 12,000 railway companies. However, there are still other types of transportation, such as transportation by bus or plane.

Have you considered offering alternative solutions to clients whose transportation was cancelled, so that they can reach their destinations?

[Rita Toporowski]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Depending on the situation, in the past we have considered using buses when a train is cancelled and/or it's en route and it's disabled. In those particular cases, it's obviously dependent on service. Can we actually source a bus? In this particular case you're referring to, we could not have done that. In this case very specifically, on the 23rd, roads were not accessible, so busing was not an option.

On anything to do with any cancellations from the 24th to the 26th, we did have a conversation related to whether or not busing could become an option for the trains that were cancelled, because we understood from a passenger perspective that they wanted to get to their families on the holidays.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Toporowski.

Mr. Boulerice, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Landry, at the start of your testimony, you said you granted contracts to an outside firm to review Via Rail's operations.

Was it the McKinsey firm?

[Martin R. Landry]

No, we went with the Roland Berger firm, which specializes in the railway sector. This firm has very appropriate expertise in this case. We retained the firm's services to review our railway operations during the situation we experienced over the holidays.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

That's perfect. Thank you very much.

From what I understood, a problem affected train 55 because a tree trunk fell onto a car.

Doesn't Via Rail have the required resources to remove a tree trunk?

[Martin R. Landry]

We do have them on our network. We have support teams that could have acted if this had happened on Via Rail's network. However, the network where it happened belongs to CN, which not only has the responsibility to take action on its networks, but also has the support teams to do so, which we do not. That explains why we had to depend on CN to remove the tree.

The tree initially hit the locomotive's windshield, making it impossible to drive. It was no longer safe. The tree then ended up on one of the passenger cars. So we're talking here about a precarious situation.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

What is your assessment of CN's reaction time and response for removing the tree trunk?

[Martin R. Landry]

It took a lot longer than we hoped. Weather conditions explain part of the delay. The first CN team that was supposed to take care of the tree had an accident on the way, unfortunately, due to difficult conditions. Just accessing the accident location was problematic.

After the second team arrived, it deemed the winds too strong to remove the tree safely without damaging the car, but above all, without risking the tree piercing the car and possibly injuring passengers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Boulerice.

Thank you very much, Mr. Landry.

Next we have Mr. Strahl.

Mr. Strahl, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to talk about communications. In the first meeting we had with the airlines and airports, we learned that the minister had never communicated with the airports regarding the chaos that happened during the holiday season. We learned that he had not spoken with the airlines directly—certainly not with Sunwing—until January 5, after all of the passengers had returned home from being stranded abroad.

When, Mr. Landry, did you speak personally with the minister about the situation that plagued Via over the holiday season? On what date, please?

[Martin R. Landry]

Maybe I could contextualize our relationship with Transport Canada and the ministry. As a Crown corporation, as you can imagine, we have daily contacts with Transport Canada across a wide—

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

I'm aware of the context, but my question specifically is in terms of Mr. Alghabra's communication with you directly. On what date did that occur?

[Martin R. Landry]

We had ongoing communications with the minister's office. We set up a meeting with the minister post-incident, not only to review actions during the events but more importantly to review the action plan to address the shortcomings. That meeting was held on January 11.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

That's good to know.

First of all, I'll just say that seems awfully late in the day. Again, it's a delayed response to what was an emergent situation.

Speaking of the emergency nature, having listened to your testimony, I think the passengers were actually quite lucky that the incident wasn't worse. What if the tree had been struck and the train had derailed? How long would it have taken emergency crews to access the site? It seems as though what we're hearing is that it would have been impossible for crews to get there inside of 13 hours.

It is very troubling to me to think, if the incident had been any worse—it already was terrible for the people on board—what the response would have been. How would it have been different had there been a breach of one of the carriages, or had trains actually jumped the track and the passengers were deemed to not have been in a safe environment? It seems that we were very close to that scenario happening.

It's very troubling to me that we're being told that, in what is a fairly populated part of Ontario, nothing could be done to assist the passengers on that train any sooner than service was offered. Can you explain that to me? How is that possible? How could it have been, as my colleague said, not that far—yes, the train was difficult—from civilization, if you want to call it that, yet it was so many hours, apparently, before assistance could arrive at that train?

[Michael Brankley]

I think at the beginning of your question you mentioned that, if the train had left the track or if the train had been breached and exposed to the environment, it would have constituted an emergency. Yes, at that point, emergency protocols would have been enacted based on the passengers no longer being safe in terms of light, heat and sanitation.

Emergency services had been contacted and did attend the train in the morning. I can't speak to what the emergency services' timeline response would have been in a greater level of emergency, i.e., the train derailed or the passengers no longer had light and heat.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Okay.

Mr. Landry, you talked about the refunds and credits being offered to rail passengers. In the air sector, when an airline has a delay or fails to get someone to their destination, they have to pay $1,000 per passenger, and we've heard some difficulties in passengers getting that.

Do you believe that Via Rail should be brought under a similar passenger protection regulation where, not only would you make them whole, you would offer refunds, credits, vouchers and that, which the airlines do as well? Do you believe that Via Rail should have to pay $1,000 to passengers who are impacted, such as those who were impacted on train 55 over the Christmas holidays?

[Martin R. Landry]

We'd welcome a discussion around better passenger protection for rail passengers, but I think, for it to be relevant, it would be important to have the host railways as part of this process. As we are so dependent on the host railways to deliver our service, I think, in order for us to improve the customer experience, part of this will come through enacting rules and guidelines that would give, for example, greater priority for passenger train services so that the schedules could be met and avoid the need for penalties, as the number of delays would be significantly reduced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Landry.

Thank you very much, Mr. Strahl.

Next we have Ms. Koutrakis.

Ms. Koutrakis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses from Via Rail for appearing before us today. It's very appreciated.

I, for one, use Via Rail services very frequently to come from Montreal to Ottawa, weekly, I would say. First I have to say that Via has always delivered exceptional client service. In fact, I'm sure, if you ask many Canadians who use Via Rail on a regular basis or even just from time to time, they've experienced exceptional customer service.

Past serious disruptions and situations often led to exceptional service, recovery and positive passenger feedback. I'm sure, if you look at your stats, they will concur with what I'm saying. This included timely and honest communication and giving passengers complementary food, water, beverages, blankets, etc.

Why did these things not happen pre-emptively over the Christmas holidays?