Evidence of meeting #13 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Association du camionnage du Québec
Certainly the one that is most important to me at present is the one concerning issuance of a T4A. That is a priority we have been calling for, for quite some time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Next, we have Dr. Lewis.
Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes please.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Richardson, thank you for your testimony here today.
Your company and your training school in Caledonia have been helping drivers and carriers in southwestern Ontario for decades. I just want to recognize your contribution to the industry. Your work with the Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada, educating and warning new drivers about the risks of being misclassified, is something that is very important and is something that this Liberal federal government should also be doing.
Trucking is also a vital part of our local economy in Haldimand—Norfolk. It is vital to our farmers, to our manufacturing sector and to small businesses.
My first question for you is this: Do you see the Driver Inc. model affecting the availability of properly trained, safe drivers on our roads?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
These individuals who are getting their commercial licences are actually going to carriers and asking if they can be paid in the Driver Inc. model, the misclassified model. The good carriers out there are saying no. They're not participating, so it is affecting that, for sure, Ms. Lewis.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
You mentioned in your opening statement that trucking is one of the few professions for which students cannot access federal loans under the Canada student financial assistance program, unlike students in nursing and in other skilled trades.
Why do you think the government has excluded those entering trucking from federal training supports? Do you see that expanding access could help fix the misclassification and the poorly trained driver problems that so many have spoken about at committee?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
From our research, we're being told that this is a policy that's been in place and that commercial truck driver training programs historically don't have the length of time that's necessary to pursue the Canadian [Technical difficulty—Editor] the other vocational trades that are out there do have access to this.
My question to the committee is this: What other profession can you go into where you get four to six weeks of education and then go on to a carrier that supplies good, existing, behind-the-wheel training, where an individual is going to make somewhere between $70,000 and a hundred grand in their first year? They are very easily able to pay that loan off. [Technical difficulty—Editor] carriers, which leads to good insurers, which leads to long-term, sustainable careers.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Is it your position that, even though it's a short duration, the net benefit to society would warrant having drivers able to access this funding?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
Yes...100%. By educating those entry-level drivers who are coming in about the misclassification model and Driver Inc., it's going to help drive some of those folks out of the business.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
We also heard that Crown corporations like Canada Post might be contracting Driver Inc. carriers. Is it possible that Ottawa has turned a blind eye to the enforcement issue, perhaps because the financial incentives for lower-cost contracts are causing this?
What impact is the use of misclassified drivers having on our local economy in communities like Haldimand—Norfolk and, frankly, across the country?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
That's a great question and a great point.
These trucks are being treated as cash registers for those who are entering into the misclassified driver model. Are contracts being awarded to people and to organizations coming in at a cheaper rate? Absolutely, and the price is our road safety. The price is affecting the general public every day.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
We've also heard from trucking businesses at committee that they just simply can't compete with Driver Inc. companies without undermining labour laws. Do you have any knowledge of that, based on your industry?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
Many of our customers are constantly talking about the 30% they have to keep up with. There's 30% to 40% [Technical difficulty—Editor] taxes, as well as other programs out there that are affecting every carrier that is doing it properly.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
If you could propose any one action for the government to take today to restore fairness and prevent any abuse in the industry, what would it be?
Senior Advisor, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada
Reintroduce the T4A.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis.
Finally, for this round, we'll go to Mr. Kelloway.
You have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses here and online today.
This has been a really interesting study. So far, we've been able to dive really deep into the anatomy, I would say, of the problems—plural. We've talked today about training being the best line of defence in and around this particular problem.
When I look at categorizing the challenges, there are a few. We talked about training. That's under provincial jurisdiction, but you talked about harmonizing training across the country. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you talked about harmonizing it in the sense of an overview.
Is that the best way to describe it, Ms. Omole? I want to make sure I got it correct and that it's about the oversight of the federal government on provincial training.
Manager, Commercial Policy, Insurance Bureau of Canada
What the Insurance Bureau of Canada would like to see—and I think it is in line with other trucking stakeholders—is harmonization as it pertains to the training standards. We are aware of national safety code standard 16, which outlines what should be captured in entry-level training. However, as many of you may see, across jurisdictions, some have implemented them and others have not. Some have added certain hours of instruction and others have not. There's a very different patchwork approach across Canada.
In terms of a comprehensive review and a comprehensive approach to training, we would like to see greater harmonization across jurisdictions, because trucks travel across Canada. We'd like to see greater consistency in the training that's offered, as well as in the instruction provided by the teachers.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
Thank you for that.
My second question is for Mr. Cadieux. You mentioned the need to ensure that we continue to make investments through ESDC. You referenced the $26 million. I think that is important. Can we build on the good work you say is being done? What else could be done through ESDC? If something is working that's great. It's fantastic.
When we're looking at solutions, what else could the mechanism of the federal government...? We have the provinces over here. It seems like some recommendations are talking about greater connectivity between the federal government and the provincial governments.
When we look at ESDC and some of the things you mentioned that we're doing well, what can we do to build on them?
Chief Executive Officer, Association du camionnage du Québec
Mr. Kelloway, I will let my colleague and consoeur answer your question.
Josyanne Pierrat Director of Compliance and Legal Affairs, Association du camionnage du Québec
Thank you for your question.
We think information sharing between government agencies at the federal and provincial levels should be much faster, since companies may come under federal jurisdiction in Quebec. For example, there could be information sharing between the CNESST—the Commission des normes de l'équité, de la santé et de la sécurité du travail—and Revenu Québec.
Instead of those agencies doing their investigations and audits over again, they could share the information so that everyone could come to the same conclusion. In addition, there should be more enforcement powers, because it can take up to three years to get a decision, because of delays, the law firms involved in the cases and other factors. So it is much too long.
Liberal
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
No, we're not going to give the question to the Conservatives. I can hear them talking. No, they get nothing today. This isn't the fun dome, or whatever you want to call it.