Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2022

[Toufic El-Daher]

Yes.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay.

Ms. Vaillancourt, are case managers overworked?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes, they are.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Their caseloads are too high?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

They have been, and they counter what the government's promise was of 25 to one.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Therefore, would it be a good idea to get them some support in their work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 15 seconds.

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

It would be hiring more case managers, not contracting out the work.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

So it would be support from people who pay union dues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

I'm sorry, but your time is over.

Now I'd like to invite the second vice-chair of the committee, Monsieur Luc Desilets,

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, dear colleagues.

Mr. El‑Daher, what do you think the minister refuses to talk to you? My question may seem a little naive, but I would like to know what your thoughts are.

[Toufic El-Daher]

Honestly, I don't know. Since I became vice-president, and that was in October 2018, the minister has never contacted me personally. He has never contacted the national union management that represents employees at Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

He hasn't contacted you since when?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I haven't had any contact with the Minister for Veterans Affairs since October 2018, which is when I was elected to my current position.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Ms. Vaillancourt, when was the last time you met with the minister to talk about a major file?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Since I became national president officially in January of 2019, I have met with the minister in February of 2020 for 30 minutes and again in December of 2021 for 30 minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Was this meeting about the file we are talking about today?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

The initial meeting in February was in regard to the case management numbers and the high workloads and the stress those were causing. The December meeting was a follow-up to that meeting, in and around it.

We didn't have enough time to get into the contract piece. Thirty minutes is not enough time to talk about the concerns.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. El‑Daher, what do you think will be the impact of the rehabilitation contract on recipients?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I have held my substantive position as a veteran service agent with the Department of Veterans Affairs since 2003. I have been in various positions, but my last position was as a veteran service agent.

I believe that this contract will really hurt veterans and their families.

Since 2006, I have been witness to the privatization of our 15 health programs, which have been transferred to Blue Cross. Initially, the department said that only one health program would be transferred to Blue Cross. In the end, the contract was expanded and all 15 health care programs, including the Veterans Independence Program, which allows veterans to live independently in their homes, are now entirely managed by Blue Cross.

This is why that I'm telling you that even though the department is saying that this is just an administrative change, it is not, because the contract can be changed at any time. It is currently set up for a five‑year period, but it could be extended over many years. The veterans will be the hardest hit, because they will no longer be able to deal directly with their case manager.

Dealing with an insurance company or a private company won't give you the same level of service. Veterans need to be reassured, and there is no way they are going to be reassured by privatizing their care. We saw disasters happen with Blue Cross, and I worry about the other disasters coming with this privatization.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Tell me, why do you think it was a bad idea to award the contract to Blue Cross?

[Toufic El-Daher]

It was a bad decision because initially, we were managing the 15 programs, whether it was for eye care, dental care or medication, and in 2007 and 2008, to save money, the department decided to close the treatment authorization centres in Montreal and in other regions in Canada and award contracts to Blue Cross. Afterwards, we lost all the programs.

I honestly foresee a negative impact, because veterans are finding it hard to cope with the way the companies hand down their decisions. When their claims are refused, for example, the answers are given in harsh, badly written letters in French and the veterans have a hard time contacting the company's employees.

That is what is worrying me when it comes to new providers. What recourse will our veterans have? Currently, things are going very well with the case managers. There is no need to privatize these services. You simply have to give more resources to Veterans Affairs Canada and all will be well. You won't solve any problems by privatizing the services.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, were there financial reasons behind the privatization?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Absolutely.

Don't forget that when a veteran can't appeal a decision, the money stays with the Department of Foreign Affairs at the end of the day.

Veterans who have sacrificed their lives so that we may live in peace in a beautiful democratic country do not have access to these services, because someone has decided that the services would be offered by a private company.

We provide services to veterans as public servants. When a claim is denied, we help them to meet the criteria, if necessary. For example, we ask them to provide certain documents and we help them with the process.

I worry that the new company will not show as much empathy.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have another quick question.

In your opinion, what impact will the rehabilitation contract have on working conditions for case managers?