Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2022

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madame Vaillancourt, I'm very disturbed by what I'm hearing from you and from the union. In 120 hours we will be throwing veterans into a privatization experiment, literally. I'm really stunned by this.

I want to know what the transition plan has been up until next Tuesday. Is it true that case managers were told not to offer any new medical or psychosocial resources for veterans starting on October 25?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes. That is true.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The government cut off those supports for a month for veterans who might have PTSD and might need urgent support.

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes. The case managers were advised, for October 25 to November 21, not to implement new medical or psychosocial resources, whether the veteran was on the current vocational rehabilitation, whether they were new rehabilitation applicants or whether they were already with the case managers being shifted.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

What would be the consequences of that for somebody who has PTSD and is suicidal? What would be the consequence of cutting off those services?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

I'm not a veteran, but I come from a veteran's family, and I can tell you that it has a negative impact on their ability to re-establish effectively. This is where we have concerns. Veterans are going to fall through the cracks.

I know for a fact that some case managers have still been putting in the resources, because they have said, “I don't care at this point. My veterans need this resource, and it's going to be put in place.”

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You have some caseworkers disobeying a government that, cruelly, is cutting them off from essential services.

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes, and we know that they will most likely get called out for it, but for them it's about the veteran. It's about making sure that the veteran has the services and the benefits they need, regardless of the fact that they are waiting for a contract with a for-profit company to be put into place.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The government is refusing to put money into veteran services and instead wants to hire this private contractor. Does the fact that there are so many temporary workers in Veterans Affairs, those without permanency, contribute to instability in terms of providing the supports that are so necessary for veterans?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

It does, because you have case managers who aren't sure if they are going to have a job at the end of their term, so they are constantly looking for permanency. A lot of them have looked at going to another organization or to going back to the community.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The minister has refused to sit down with you to talk about that.

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Now I'd like to invite Ms. Marilyn Gladu for two minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I'm extremely concerned with what I'm hearing. To follow up on Mr. Julian's comment, are you saying that if a veteran with PTSD or with suicidal thoughts had called in over the last month, the government had instructed case managers to not refer them to anybody for help?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

Yes.

At one of the offices, I have put up for the case managers flip charts that specifically outline the three different steps for that, and they specifically state that there should be no new medical or psychosocial resources from October 25 to November 21. I would be more than happy to send those flip charts to the committee chair.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Yes. Please send those to the committee.

As a follow-up to that, on Tuesday veterans are going to be calling. My understanding is that you've said you have no idea where to refer them, and that they got a letter that doesn't really tell them who they need to talk to.

Is that correct?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

That is correct.

As I said, I spoke to a number of case managers yesterday just to see where they were at. As of yesterday, they did not have the process to refer clients to the new contractor.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

This is entirely unacceptable.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have less than one minute. Take it all.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'll take it all. That's great.

In terms of the communication that's gone out about how this process is going to be rolled out, can you tell us the details of this phased rollout?

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

There hasn't been much of a phasing. There have been deadlines, which I requested, through the deputy minister, be moved because of the amount of work that case managers were under. The request to move the deadline was denied. Then, when the department found that it wasn't able to meet that deadline, it changed the deadline itself. This was for the case management complexity or assessment tools.

On the pure phase-in, I'd have to send you the document. I don't want to misquote something.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

That's fine. You can send us the document.

What about veterans who are trapped in the backlog? What will happen to them on Tuesday?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 10 seconds.

[Virginia Vaillancourt]

I do not know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Vaillancourt.

And finally, the last two minutes go to Mr. Casey.