Evidence of meeting #25 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for your appearance today.
This contract was awarded in June 2021, and it's been over a year now. One of the main objectives of this contract is to streamline and reduce the administrative burden on case managers.
Why do you not agree that this is the case, and what kinds of impacts have there been on case managers since the contract was awarded?
4:15 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
We never liked the streamlining aspect. The department has, as I said, been noting that it's going to ease the administrative burden. We don't find that, and the case managers, as I said, have not seen any less of an administrative burden.
Right now they're transitioning all of the files from one system to another system by filling out a six-page migration form, which is more or less giving the relationship that the case manager has built with the veteran to the new contractor. That is how the contractor is going to learn about what the veteran's needs are—through a six-page document—whereas a case manager might have spent five months or more trying to build that rapport and relationship with the veteran.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Thank you.
The new service model should be reducing administrative tasks and allowing more time for case managers to communicate with the veterans and their families. Do you agree that this is the case?
4:15 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
No, because we don't know what the case manager's role is going to be when this contact comes in on Tuesday.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wilson Miao Liberal Richmond Centre, BC
Mr. Chair, I'd like to share the remaining time with my colleague here, Mr. Casey.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
November 17th, 2022 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Vaillancourt, I'm going to read something to you. Tell me if you recognize this.
I continue to meet with Senior Management on various topics and concerns while working to build the collaboration and consultation between the Department and the Union at all levels.
Do you recognize that?
4:15 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
You'd have to specify in which document that was, but, yes, it's something that I continuously try to build, and the department will tell you that I'm always harping on how there needs to be better collaboration and consultation between the union and the department, and how it's not there.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
You wrote those words in your report to the members in September of this year, about a month before you called for the minister's resignation.
Could you outline for the committee the steps that you took between May and August to build collaboration and consultation between the department and the union at all levels?
4:15 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
Well, it's not just the union's role to build that; it's the department's role as well to come to the table and actually collaborate and consult, which hasn't happened.
We attended a national labour management meeting at which the department took away UVAE's individual and national LMCC, which is labour management consultation committees, and turned it into a joint meeting, and I've documented very clearly that we need to go back to UVAE's specific meeting for that.
I meet with some of the senior managers every couple of weeks in a bilateral meeting, and I am always harping on consultation and collaboration.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Mr. Chair, I'd like the witness to advise whether this idea of contracting out rehabilitation services is something new or is something that the department has been doing since 2006.
4:20 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
Thank you, Chair.
The department has been contracting out other work, absolutely. The Medavie Blue Cross was prior to my term in the national office. I was a local president when that contracting out happened.
I'm not sure what else you are looking for.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
With respect to what you reported to your members, I asked you about what steps you had taken to build collaboration, and you responded with what the department hasn't done. Can you take another try and tell me what you have done as per your report to your members?
4:20 p.m.
National President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
As I noted in my response, I have bilateral meetings with senior officials every couple of weeks, and at those meetings I'm trying to build the consultation and collaboration piece, which does not fully happen.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Ms. Vaillancourt.
We can have two more speakers, but quickly.
Mr. Desilets, you have two and a half minutes.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. El‑Daher.
You know as well as I do that francophones have the impression that they are discriminated against when it comes to processing times for their claims.
Do you think the rehabilitation contract could have a negative or unwanted effect on francophones?
4:20 p.m.
National Executive Vice-President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
In light of my experience, I would say yes.
Francophones already have to wait longer before receiving an answer to their claims, whether it is a request for benefits or any other claim. Francophones wait longer because the department hires more unilingual anglophone people. It hires much fewer bilingual people.
Unfortunately, I fear that francophone veterans and their families will pay the price of this privatization.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Your union is asking that the workload be set at a maximum case ratio of 25 veterans per case manager.
Can you please tell us how you arrived at this maximum ratio of 25 veterans per case manager, rather than say, 20 or 30?
4:20 p.m.
National Executive Vice-President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
It wasn't the union that asked for 25 veterans' cases per case manager. This came from the Department of Veterans Affairs. It was the deputy minister at the time, Mr. Walter Natynczyk, who made the request. It really comes from the department. That's why it is surprising that the department is not keeping its promises made to case managers.
The 1:25 ratio was proposed to improve the way we deal with veterans and give us a better framework, so that we can hit our targets.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
I understand.
Why do you think it is so hard to keep to this ratio?
4:20 p.m.
National Executive Vice-President, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees
There is a lack of employees everywhere. We don't have enough training. What's more, there is a retention problem within the department, and employees do not get much recognition. The department really has a lot of work to do to fully recognize employees in order to retain them. That's one of the weaknesses that, unfortunately, means that we are having difficulties in keeping our employees.
We would like to work with the department in order to meet this target because our mission is to give the best service possible to veterans and their families. We know that the resources are there within Veterans Affairs Canada. We want more resources, but not through privatization. We would like public servants to take care of veterans.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. El‑Daher.
I will turn over to Mr. Julian for two and a half minutes.