Debates of Jan. 27th, 1994

Speech From The Throne

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Laurier-Sainte-Marie for his speech. I met him over two years ago, after his first election, and so far we have had a good experience, I think, working together on the Board of Internal Economy.

The member is an important person in his party and he made a couple of references in his speech similar to things that were said by his leader.

I would like to ask him on behalf of his party to clarify for me a couple of questions. I wish I could put them to his leader but the rules of the House do not make that terribly easy.

First, the member as well as his leader has stated that the federal system does not work and of course this Parliament is part of the federal system. Although he may believe the federal system does not work, does he and his party see it see it as their obligation in their role as members of this Parliament to do their best to make this Parliament work and by implication to make the federal system work as long as they play this role?

Second, I would like to ask him about his position in the future constitutional debate that may take place in Quebec. He has categorized that debate as between independence and the status quo as represented by the current constitutional arrangements.

If a referendum like that was rejected by the people of Quebec, would he follow through on the consistency of that argument and see that rejection as an acceptance of Quebec's role in Canada and of the 1982 constitutional arrangements?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I too have learned to work together with the hon. member and, yes, I think that we can co-operate on many things.

We want to make this Parliament work as well as possible. We have made suggestions for this purpose and I think that with this election, we have just created a real dialogue for the first time in the history of this country, because, you know, a dialogue cannot be based on anything but the truth.

I am not saying that all Quebecers are for sovereignty, but I do say that pro-sovereignty feeling exists. For the first time we can debate it here. I think that it is something new for Canadians to hear it discussed here. It puts the debate in its proper place, so that it can be done right. In that sense, such a contribution, with Parliament working better, would ultimately lead to a better attitude to the political problems we face. It does not mean that federalism would work better because, as I said, I do not believe that federalism in itself is bad, but the federal arrangement in the present political context cannot be reconciled with the needs of Canadian people and Quebecers.

We must move towards a political and economic framework involving both national sovereignty and common markets, as we see in Europe and will see, I am sure, with NAFTA, which will grow and not be limited to Mexico and the United States but within fifteen or twenty years will include all the countries of Central and Latin America. We must move in that direction.

On the other question, what will we do if the referendum is defeated? I answer you: what will you do if the referendum passes?

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the remarks of the hon. member and share his view that he has some legitimate grievances with the way the political structure is operating right now. The people in my community who are without work and children who are without nourishment are no different in their feelings than those in his community. I am sure he shares that view.

But if we address in a constructive way some of the issues which he is talking about, and if we develop national standards in health care, education and training so that all Quebecers benefit as all other Canadians benefit, is it still his position that in spite of that correction he still wants to give up on Canada?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when you talk about national standards, to really understand what Quebec feels about Canada, I must tell you right away that our society, the country that we want, will in no way be superior or inferior to Canada, just different.

To properly understand how we react to national standards, ask yourself why you have national standards that are different from the Americans'. You will answer, "Because we are Canadians, because our national sovereignty is important to us, because we have different values, not better or worse than the Americans, just plain different." It is the same for Quebec.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the remarks of the hon. member for Laurier-Sainte-Marie regarding a 25 per cent reduction in the defence budget.

I am sure the hon. member is aware that over the past 20 years Canada has been second only to Luxembourg in per capita commitment to defence. In fact, we have been recognized in NATO and other agencies as being very much remiss in our contribution to defence.

Over the next four years we are scheduled to see a $6 billion reduction in the defence budget already announced. I would ask the hon. member if it is realistic and reasonable to suggest a 25 per cent reduction in a budget for a force that we do not really know yet what we are going to ask it to do? Would it not be more appropriate to await the outcome of the defence review before we establish a budget to operate that force?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Of course, we want to review the whole role of the Canadian armed forces before making these 25 per cent cuts.

It is not simply an accounting exercise. Of course, we must think before we act. Nevertheless, I tell you that we will come to a conclusion. We must set a target of a 25 per cent cut; otherwise, more and more defence-related jobs will be lost, because the arms market throughout the world is shaky. That is exactly what Bill Clinton did in the United States. He made incredible cuts in the defence department, but set up an industrial conversion fund of some $29 billion. France and Great Britain are doing the same. Remember that 50 per cent and more of the weapons made here and exported went to the American market. Since they cut their spending, and given state secrecy surrounding national defence, they will buy at home and that is quite normal. We cannot blame them. Now we have unemployment here. If we do not cut, we will have more unemployment, and that is exactly the opposite of what my hon. colleague wants.

[The Speaker]

It being two o'clock p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House will now proceed to statements by members pursuant to Standing Order 31.

Justice

[John Harvard, Liberal, Winnipeg—St. James, MB]

Mr. Speaker, a secret trial was held in Brampton, Ontario last month. We know that the presiding judge was one Mr. Justice John Webber who closed the court and sealed the trial records at the request of the accused who felt that public knowledge of the case would have endangered his family. That is all we know.

Consider what the public does not know. Canadians do not know the name of the accused, the charge against him, or the sentence he got. As the Globe and Mail observed, we do not know what evidence was presented and what testimony was given. We do not know the nature of the accused's appeal for secrecy, the nature of the arguments against it, or the quality of the judge's decision in granting it.

This is going too far. Gag orders under the Criminal Code prohibiting publication of some evidence may have their place, but a whole trial entirely in secret? That is unacceptable. It arouses suspicions unfortunately about the judiciary.

Canadians deserve a full explanation.

The Late Gérard Parizeau

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on my behalf and on behalf of the Bloc Quebecois caucus, I would like to offer my sympathy to Mr. Jacques Parizeau, leader of the Parti Quebecois and MNA for L'Assomption, in my riding, as well as to his family, following the passing of his father, Mr. Gérard Parizeau.

The late Mr. Parizeau had a full and meaningful career. His pride, honesty and integrity should be a model for all of us. Besides working in the insurance business, he taught at the École des Hautes Études commerciales for almost 40 years. He also wrote several books on French-Canadian society.

For his dedication to society, he was made a member of the Royal Society of Canada, dubbed Knight of the Legion of Honour and awarded the title of High Officer of the Ordre national du Québec. Such tributes are evidence of the significant contribution he made to the development of Quebec society.

Again, our deepest sympathy to the Parizeau family. We wish them all our best in this difficult juncture in their lives.

Small Business

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking on behalf of the small business owners in Okanagan-Similkameen-Merritt these people are forced to spend long hours dealing with government paperwork and regulations.

Even before the imposition of the GST, over 60 per cent of small business owners in Canada spent up to 10 hours a week complying with government regulations and red tape. This time is better spent marketing their products and doing business. This situation has become much worse with the GST.

This government promised to review the impact of regulations and paperwork on small businesses and their ability to comply. Government and the public service must live up to their names. They must serve Canadians by removing unnecessary and duplicate regulations.

Let us make compliance with the needed regulations as convenient as possible. I believe this will help restore the public confidence in government and allow small businesses to do what they do best: create jobs.

Peacekeeping

[Larry McCormick, Liberal, Hastings—Frontenac—Lennox And Addington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate all the members of this House on their thoughtful comments during Tuesday's historic debate on Canada's peacekeeping role.

The decisions that we take on the future of peacekeeping in Bosnia cannot be divorced from the broader issue of Canada's overall future in international peacekeeping.

Like many of my constituents and many Canadians, I support the UN peacekeeping role. Peacekeeping is so vital to international security. Therefore we must examine, reconceive and perhaps reconsider our present involvement in Bosnia-Hercegovina. In my opinion there is no one right answer. There are only options to be weighed and there are only best possible choices.

I trust that our government has every intention of making the right choices. I thank the government for its sincere efforts to consider all the options and insights put forward in the House during the course of that historic debate.

Cruise Missile Testing Debate

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to draw to the attention of the House a phone call I got last night from a young man in my riding, a Mr. Don Shay.

Don is apparently a fan of the parliamentary channel. He phoned last night to say that for the first time in all the times he has been watching that channel, he felt he learned something.

He asked me to congratulate the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, the leader of the third party and all members of the House for a debate that was truly informative. He looks forward to more of them.

Blood Fractionation Facility

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to support most strongly the proposed Canadian Red Cross blood fractionation facility in Nova Scotia.

Currently, 96 per cent of our fractionated blood products, which are used by 300,000 Canadians, are purchased abroad. This situation makes us uniquely vulnerable to foreign safety standards, international shortages, export restrictions and fluctuations in international prices.

This facility will ensure that all Canadians derive, first and foremost, important health benefits. It will provide safer and less expensive products and will generate savings of up to $575 million in the next decade to the Canadian health care system.

Moreover, the economic benefits of this facility are of importance to Nova Scotia. It will produce $11 billion in economic spinoffs for the Atlantic region in the next decade and create over 400 jobs in the high-tech sector.

This plant represents a significant step toward the goal of self-sufficiency in blood products, which has been deemed essential by the World Health Organization.

Nova Scotians and all Canadians must be allowed to reap the benefits of a Canadian fractionation facility.

Canada Post Corporation

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Auditor General of Canada examines Canada Post activities in 1994, I invite him to check the relevance of this agency's advertising budget, sponsoring costs and contract allowance methods.

This should also help us to appreciate the effectiveness of the Canada Post privatization policy, which is based solely on the postmasters' age of retirement rather than on the number of customers.

Last, the Auditor General could evaluate the impact of such a policy on the development of our rural communities.

Agriculture

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of farmers who seek sound programs that balance their interests with those of consumers and taxpayers.

Reformers will promote the following changes to agriculture:

Consolidation of over a dozen uncoordinated programs into three: a trade distortion adjustment program; an income stabilization program; and an improved crop insurance program;

Reform of the transportation system so that products may be moved by any route, any mode and in any state of processing;

Improved private sector participation in research, education and job training;

Better targeting of research funds to meet the goals set out by farmers and agribusiness; and

Improved regulations relating to safety, fair competition and dispute settlement.

These changes and others will allow farmers to build a much brighter future.

Unemployment Insurance

[Warren Allmand, Liberal, Notre-Dame-De-Grâce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during the last Parliament there were large demonstrations and intense opposition to the Conservative amendments to the Unemployment Insurance Act which denied benefits to persons who were obliged to leave their employment for serious reasons but who could not prove just cause as defined in the act.

I continue to meet individuals who were obliged to quit their jobs because they were exploited or harassed and who are now denied all benefits. Their alternative was to continue working as slaves.

Since this party at that time strongly opposed those amendments as being unduly harsh and excessive, I would urge the government to initiate amendments as soon as possible to correct this injustice.

Official Languages Act

[Jean-Robert Gauthier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Speaker, 1994 marks the 25th anniversary of the first Official Languages Act in Canada adopted by this House. Under the nine year Tory regime we saw fading interest in and commitment toward official languages. Too few Canadians understand what it is all about.

A serious study should be undertaken by an individual to determine whether the Official Languages Act is working as intended. The mandate of the study should include federal institutions, the courts, education, training and development, language minorities, culture, the national capital region, volunteer organizations, et cetera.

I hope the government will support this proposal and come to an early review of the implementation of this act so that Canada can move on to other things.

High Alcohol Content Beer

[Beryl Gaffney, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on December 14, 1993 the city of Nepean passed a resolution supporting restrictive pricing and marketing measures with respect to high alcohol content beer.

The Traffic Injury Research Foundation, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, the Addiction Research Foundation, and the Canadian Medical Association all have demonstrated their opposition to high alcohol content beer.

Research shows that for a typical 19-year old, two drinks in one hour would produce a blood alcohol content sufficiently high to violate the impaired driving provisions of the Criminal Code.

I ask that the federal government express to the Ontario legislature the need to regulate high alcohol content beer.

The Environment

[François Langlois, Bloc, Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the House and the Minister of the Environment the need to add to the Canadian fleet a ship equipped to respond quickly and efficiently in case of a spill in the St. Lawrence River or in the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

It is common knowledge that Quebec is totally unprepared to respond to an environmental disaster that would have disastrous consequences on the river's ecosystem.

This type of ship would fill a real need in addition to helping the shipbuilding industry.

As the member for Bellechasse, I know that many of my constituents who work at MIL Davie, in Lévis, are expecting a quick decision on this matter.

Justice

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the people of Fraser Valley West and others in Canada are concerned about safety in the streets. It is especially troubling when criminals slip through the cracks in the system and are allowed to roam free due to technicalities.

Michael Lawrence Drake was convicted of molesting a young girl in Bellingham, Washington in 1992. He is now roaming the streets of greater Vancouver, a free man, while his immigration inquiry is adjourned. This man was born in the United States and has resident status in Canada but he is not a Canadian citizen.

I wish to ask the members of this House to work toward giving the law enforcement officers in this country the power to detain people like this and the courts the power to deport them immediately.

Reform of the criminal justice system has been a high priority of the Reform Party. It is my hope that this government makes this reform a high priority as well so we feel good about leaving our families in a safe environment.

Magna International

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Broadview—Greenwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise under Standing Order 31 to clarify and confirm my wholehearted support for Magna International's proposed $200 million development project.

This project, which includes a world-class research and training facility, will create 1,100 jobs immediately in Aurora, Ontario, and will create 10,000 spinoff jobs throughout the entire southern Ontario economy.

I would urge the municipal and regional authorities to consider this as a massive investment in infrastructure that requires no taxpayers' money to create.

I am sure in light of this massive proposed investment in the greater Toronto area and in light of the fact that all or part of this project may have to be moved to the United States if it is not approved that all necessary planning and environmental issues will be resolved quickly.

I urge the provincial, regional and municipal authorities to consider this project in an appropriate and timely manner.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, our country is faced with a serious smuggling problem. As a non-smoker, I am generally in favour of high taxes on tobacco to help discourage young people from smoking.

However, the reality in Canada today is completely different. Because of the smuggling problem in our country, almost any young Canadian can buy cigarettes cheaply, even illegally. Moreover, those same young people can participate in and profit from this illegal activity controlled by the undesirable elements in our society. We have no choice, Mr. Speaker. We must put an end to this illegal activity by reducing, however temporarily, taxes on tobacco. We have to work together to enforce the laws of our country.

Tobacco Smuggling

[Gilles Bernier, Independent, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the last Parliament, I rose three times in this House to denounce the flagrant unfairness of double standards, the inaction of what was then my government and the Quebec government in the unfortunate saga of tobacco smuggling, where they turned a blind eye for many years by allowing the mafia to get rich on the backs of honest people.

I have always said, and I will say it again today, as the only independent elected member of the Parliament of Canada, that tax reductions are the answer to the smuggling problem. Greedy governments have led people to become smugglers, criminals and outlaws.

Today, we want to ask questions such as: Who is protecting who in the government and the police force? What public servants, politicians or organizers would profit from showing such sordid tolerance? We have now reached the point where these questions need to be asked, Mr. Speaker.