Debates of Feb. 24th, 1994

The Budget

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Saint-Denis, QC]

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to the comments made by the hon. member opposite, and I find it strange that the remarks are always the same. Regardless of the issue discussed in this House, the observations made by the hon. members opposite never change. They are always making the same comments and every government measure is invariably taken at the expense of the poor and the unemployed. It is clear to me that they have not read the budget and I will simply give you an example to illustrate my point. As regards unemployment insurance, we clearly stated that women with children are going to benefit from the new system to be put in place. And let us not forget that the government also intends to bring in other changes. Of course, it is in their interest to talk about the unemployed and the poor and to mislead the media to get their message across.

In Montreal's newspapers, it was mentioned that senior citizens would lose their pension. I can tell you that I received calls at my office, because people read this inaccurate information released by the opposition, to the effect that the elderly, regardless of their income, would lose their pension, which is not true.

Also, the scenario always being presented by the opposition is not realistic. Again, they did not look at the real figures in the budget and at what we really want to achieve. We do talk about jobs, yes we do. Let us not forget job creation. To what extent will we be able to create these jobs? It will be to the extent that we help small businesses in Quebec, including in Montreal where my riding is and which I know well, because they create jobs.

A few years ago, the city of Montreal conducted a study which showed that small and medium-size businesses were the ones creating jobs. We will help those businesses. We will provide them with the means to create jobs for the poor, as the members opposite keep saying.

Given the narrow vision of the opposition, and given that it keeps saying the same things, I would like to know why these separatists-after all this is their real name-insist on continually misleading Quebecers and not telling them the truth.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am very surprised to hear such words from a member who lives in the poorest region of Canada. I feel she has lost touch with our planet.

How can you say that the Saint-Denis riding, in the region of Montreal-

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)]

Order! I am sorry to interrupt the member, but he should address his comments to the Chair.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Madam Speaker, can the hon. member seriously tell us that in her riding, increasing the required number of weeks worked before one is entitled to unemployment-insurance benefits will not increase poverty? Let us not be mistaken here; the unemployed will be entitled to fewer weeks of benefits.

As for the issue of women, it is perverse for a member from Quebec to say such a thing; she should know better from her own experience in Quebec where the Bourbeau reform was implemented a few years ago and where women have to find witnesses and leave their homes in the evening just to prove they live alone. That kind of situation is unacceptable. We cannot maintain such a thing.

With regard to the member's question and comment, I for one trust Canadian and Quebec medias. I do not feel they lie, I think they report truthfully what they hear in the House of Commons. This is also partly what Mr. Martin, the Minister of Finance, realized the day after he presented his budget. He discovered that everyone thought he had made no changes at all and that surprised him a great deal.

My last comment is on the issue of what you call the separatists, or at least those who want Quebec to be sovereign. A sovereign country is one which makes its own legislation, collects its own taxes and signs all its treaties. We believe there is 3 billion dollars worth of duplication in a federal system and that means unnecessary expenditures; and because of your ideology, government members refuse to address that question. If they had the courage to do so, they would not have to take money away from the less fortunate among us.

[Ben Serré, Liberal, Timiskaming—French-River, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Kamouraska-Rivière-du-Loup certainly did not listen to my speech this morning. He claims that it is only in Quebec that one can get an education in French. In fact, he is asking a question to Acadians and francophones outside Quebec. Earlier, he was telling us: "Ask them if one can get an education in French outside Quebec".

Madam Speaker, I think that I am living proof of that. I completed all my studies in Ontario and in French. Not only did the Franco-Ontarians have a good education system, but they also served a good part of Northwest Quebec, where people

would come to Sudbury because there was no learning institution in Northwest Quebec.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Madam Speaker, since the hon. member speaks French, he certainly did not listen to my answer, because I was talking about our bilingual colleges. I said we know very well that for any francophone, bilingualism in a bilingual college in any province of Canada leads directly to anglicization. When we know that, in Canada, we had to wait one hundred years for Supreme Court decisions allowing us to have French schools in some Western provinces and that we must still go to court to be able to preserve that, I think it is very clear that bilingual education in Canada does not have any future. You will have to walk all over us before you can impose the closing of the Collège militaire de Saint-Jean. You can be sure that the entire Quebec population will be behind us.

[English]

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Broadview—Greenwood, ON]

Madam Speaker, I listened to the member's speech closely and I appreciated his respect for the fact that we had such limited manoeuvrability because we inherited a fiscal framework that was much worse than any of us ever imagined.

We all realize there is a crisis of confidence in the country. It does not matter whether it is in the member's riding in Quebec or my community in downtown Toronto, one of the factors that affects the confidence of investors is that we have so many members constantly talking about separation.

Does the member not realize or does he not agree that this constant focus on separation affects the economy just as much as any budget does?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Madam Speaker, if making a case for the sovereignty of Quebec could be as successful as the process that led to the separation of Norway and Sweden, I think we will have much to be proud of. Today, small countries like these have practically full employment while we are stuck with a federal government that is as cumbersome and slow-moving as an elephant. It is so slow to react to crises that by the time it is ready with solutions, another crisis has already developed.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Madam Speaker, I heard what the hon. member said. To hear him talk, a separate Quebec would be seventh heaven. I would like to ask him why that would be the case and how a separate Quebec could be in better shape economically than it is now within Canada, a Canada that has its place among the Group of Seven, a Canada that operates within a North American free-trade zone and that looks both to Europe and Asia. What more would a separate Quebec be able to offer Quebecers?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Madam Speaker, when Quebec is a sovereign state, it will control all decisions that affect Quebec. It will never decide to waste $250 million worth of labour just to make another level of government look good.

Furthermore, we can say that this beautiful Canada of ours is close to being examined by the World Bank. If the government keeps bringing down budgets like this one, not only those terrible separatists from Quebec but the whole world will want to see some changes made.

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member of the Bloc Quebecois is to be commended for his very sensitive presentation on government administration.

He suggests that once his province is a separate state, which God forbid, he will have all the answers and that Quebec's economy will be the envy of the whole world.

If we look at unemployment insurance, considering the economic situation in Canada today, a Canada which includes the 10 provinces and two territories, I would like to ask the hon. member what he wants to improve in reference to the economy.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if Quebec became a sovereign state, I never claimed it would be seventh heaven. Those were the terms used by the hon. members on the government side. However, I did say, and maintain that we would be able to get along as well as many small countries in the world which are doing a better job than Canada is doing now. In 1980, people in Quebec wondered-

[The Speaker]

Order. It being 2 p.m., the House will now proceed to Statements by Members under Standing Order 31.

Electoral Boundaries

[Réginald Bélair, Liberal, Cochrane—Superior, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Electoral Boundaries Commission has proposed to eliminate the ridings of Cochrane-Superior and Timiskaming-French River in northern Ontario.

I am appalled at the commission's ignorance of the geopolitical landscape of this area. Reducing the number of ridings will only make it more difficult to properly serve our constituents because of the distances travelled and the increase of population set at 80,000.

Northern Ontario will not sacrifice two ridings for the benefit of southern Ontario which will be getting four additional ridings. We need a strong voice in Ottawa.

By eliminating the ridings of Cochrane-Superior and Timiskaming-French River, the Elections Commission is proposing to disfigure the north of Ontario. We will never accept a diminished representation. How could the Commission use a population of 80,000 as the only criterion to divide the huge territory of northern Ontario?

It did not take into account the excellent service we offer our constituents in spite of the great distances we must cover.

Scouting

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, February 22 is a very important day. It is on February 22, 1857, in London, that Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of the scouting movement, was born. So, on February 22, Baden-Powell Day, we celebrate scouting, which Canada joined in 1910.

The scouting movement has now more than 25 million members across the world, in 150 countries. As a former scout, I would like to repeat for the House this famous quote from Baden-Powell: Try to leave this world in a better state than you found it.

Tobacco Smuggling

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to reflect what the tobacco smuggling issue tells me about Canadians.

Many say the government started it all by over reaching with taxes, but what about the complicity of the tobacco industry that markets a killer substance and then passes it off as socially acceptable? Protesting store vendors did not participate in civil disobedience. It was crime for profit. Some natives near the border look the other way, then blame someone else.

However, the real moral lapse comes from Canadians who consume illegal products. When did we become a nation of cheaters? Is it okay as long as one does not get caught? Dodging the GST, scamming welfare, lying to customs, it is time for each of us to look at ourselves and our social malaise.

If there are no buyers, there will be no sellers.

Violence And Abuse

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on many occasions in this House, hon. members from all sides have expressed unanimous concern about the growing and senseless violence and abuse within our society.

Spousal abuse, child abuse and racism have been raised frequently because we know that law and order and safety within our communities are very important to all Canadians.

As such, members of this House have a duty to reflect their support for these social concerns whenever possible. Verbal support is important but tangible actions must compliment the words to demonstrate our sincere commitment.

Accordingly, I call on all members of this House, and indeed all elected representatives across Canada, to utilize their skills and resources to develop and to champion specific initiatives to promote our shared value which is, and I emphasize, there is no excuse for abuse.

Age Tax Credit

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to clarify a question which many people have asked me regarding the age credit.

Contrary to what the Bloc Quebecois has been saying, the changes brought to the age credit will be of no consequence for the vast majority of seniors.

As a matter of fact, three quarters of retirees are not affected since their income is less than $25,921. Only those whose income exceeds $50,000 will no longer be entitled to the age credit. They represent only 5 per cent of all retirees. Thus, three quarters of them will not be affected at all.

The new budget provisions will have the same beneficial impact on seniors who are less fortunate. Retirees with an income below $26,000 will not pay more taxes.

One of the key ideas of the 1994 budget is to better target our resources so that we can meet the basic needs of those who depend on government assistance. By reducing the level of tax credits for the more wealthy, we free additional money to help the elderly who are less fortunate, so that they can live with dignity without being afraid of tomorrow.

Estonia

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I address the Canadian people in celebration of the 76th anniversary of the independence of the republic of Estonia.

On February 24, 1918 Estonian nationalists declared independence from Russia, and after several periods of foreign control, reclaimed their independence on August 20, 1991. Since then it has emerged as a leader among the Baltic states. It is the first former Soviet republic to issue its own currency, to double exports and is outstripping the other developing economies of the former Soviet Union as well as most European countries.

Under the vibrant leadership of Prime Minister Mart Laar, institutions are rapidly emerging which clearly and solidly establish Estonia as an independent and free democratic republic wherein the supreme power is vested in the people.

To the people of Estonia, the people of Canada extend wishes of permanent peace and prosperity.

Winter Olympics

[Gaston Péloquin, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec is once again in the spotlight today in Lillehammer. It is with great pride and pleasure that we learned this morning that Philippe Laroche of Lac-Beauport, in the riding of Charlesbourg, and Lloyd Langlois of Magog, in my riding, have respectively won silver and bronze in freestyle skiing-aerials.

We extend our heartfelt congratulations to them and wish them the best of luck in whatever challenge they decide to take on next, with no lack of enthusiasm, that is for sure.

Mr. Speaker, the success of our athletes at the Olympic Games is even more preaiseworthy when you think that they must initially struggle on their own to find financial support.

We will see to it that the Minister responsible for Amateur Sports honours his commitments and quickly puts in place new policies regarding support for our athletes.

Indian Affairs

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it has been reported in the media that members and supporters of the Reform Party have been maligned and labelled racist and haters of Indians by certain members of this House.

I find this repulsive and so do more than 2.5 million Canadians across this nation who voted for the Reform Party.

Many of those who supported our party are native Indians. I have two reserves in my riding and they as well find these remarks offensive.

Remarks of this nature serve only to create divisions in our country and foster hatred between different groups of Canadians where there should be friendship and understanding.

It is my fervent hope that the members who have made such offensive remarks will rise in this House and apologize and promise never again to make such hate filled comments, whether in private or in front of this House before the television cameras.

Black Achievement Awards

[Anna Terrana, Liberal, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, February is Black History Month. The black community has a long history in Canada during which, like many other immigrants, black people have substantially contributed to the life of this country with pride and determination.

Every February Pride magazine presents the Canadian Black Achievement Awards to members of the black community who have performed outstandingly in their field of expertise and in participating in the life of their communities. The awards recognize and honour the accomplishments, achievements and excellence of African Canadians in 16 different categories of endeavour.

This year Pride magazine has recognized and honoured three members of this House who are for the first time representing the constituents of their ridings in the Government of Canada.

The hon. member for Etobicoke-Lakeshore, the hon. member for Vancouver Quadra and the hon. member for Bruce-Grey were chosen for the work each of them did in their communities in their capacities as educator, medical doctor and mayor, respectively, while being active volunteers in many other endeavours.

I am sure all members of this House want to join me in recognizing the three hon. members and congratulating them for their achievements.

Defence Policy

[Jesse Flis, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this week the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced that Canada

was sending 12 Canadian forces personnel to Cambodia to take part in the dangerous task of removing five million land mines which literally cover half of the country.

The terrible legacy of two decades of civil war left a deadly variety of land mines which kill or maim 300 Cambodians every month. It also makes any kind of agricultural activity virtually impossible.

I congratulate the bravery of these 12 Canadian soldiers who are going to Cambodia to support the demining operations there.

In view of the international conventions against the use of biological, chemical and other diabolical weapons of destruction, I will recommend that the use of land mines in warfare be considered on the agenda of the Canadian foreign affairs and defence policy review which this government is preparing to launch very shortly.

[Translation]

Saint-Hubert Weather Office

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on October 25 last, the people of Quebec and Canada thought they had elected a new government. Unfortunately, until proved otherwise, this is not the case. Take for instance this important issue affecting my riding, namely the closure of the weather office in Saint-Hubert.

Weather services experts are slated to be replaced by an automatic meteorological observation system which has not yet been perfected and does not differentiate accurately between types of precipitation.

Following the announcement of this highly questionable decision, officials from the Montérégie region asked to meet with the two ministers concerned to review the decision made by the Tories. Will the Minister of Transport and the Minister of the Environment dare reconsider a decision made by the Tories? Stay tuned!

Indian Affairs

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Vegreville, AB]

Mr. Speaker, recently the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development expressed his concern with what he believes is the Reform Party's view on aboriginal Canadians which is that Reformers hate Indians. This allegation, of course, is completely false.

Charges of racism have been used all too often as a means of attempting to undermine the Reform Party. These allegations contribute nothing to the daily performance of this House.

The statements the minister made in this House, which implied that Reformers have shown racist tendencies, are based on the fact that we speak openly and honestly on issues like Indian-