Debates of April 12th, 1994

Mil Davie Shipbuilding

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the government realize that, with every passing day, its inaction threatens the survival of the biggest private business in the Quebec City region and that it would be dangerous to put off its decision for partisan purposes until the election in Quebec?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would certainly agree with the hon. member that it would be wrong to put off important decisions for partisan reasons.

I would point out to him however it is important that a large decision involving a lot of the taxpayers' money must be made for the right reasons. It will not be subject to this kind of pressure in order to make a decision which would prove to be the wrong one.

Official Languages

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Today the 1993 annual report from the Commissioner of Official Languages was tabled in the House. In his report Victor Goldbloom states: "Given the present economic circumstances, we are more convinced than ever that the bilingualism bonus should be eliminated". Last year those bonus payments cost taxpayers nearly $51 million. Increased budgetary expenditures as opposed to the government's stated intent of deficit reduction sends out a mixed signal.

Will the Prime Minister follow the commissioner's strong recommendation to eliminate bilingualism bonuses, thus assuring tax weary Canadians his government is serious about deficit reduction?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the commissioner has made a strong recommendation. He has recommended we look into that and we will look into that.

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Prime Minister might explain if any decision to act in this long overdue area will result in the cancellation of tens of millions of dollars in retroactive bilingualism bonus payments to the RCMP?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there are always some administrative problems with any program. We are looking into it.

This program has been a very good incentive in Canada in helping a lot of people to learn the other official language. It is a great asset when people can do that.

In fact, the report indicates that the number of young Canadians who have become bilingual since the program was instituted has gone from 3 per cent to 11 per cent. That means the number of young anglophones who have learned French and francophones who have learned English has quadrupled since this program was instituted. It is a great thing for Canada.

All those who can have the two official languages feel better about it. The hon. member who is bilingual should be grateful we made it possible for him to learn the other official language.

Rail Transport

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. The future of rail transport is being compromised by current government plans. Yet, rail freight remains a major development tool in several regions.

As far as the Official Opposition is concerned, a moratorium must be declared on the elimination of further sections of railway in eastern Canada to allow true consultation to take place with those affected.

Here is my question: Will the Prime Minister agree, first of all, to declare such a moratorium and, second, to hold regional public consultations before taking actions that could prove to be extremely harmful to the economic future of several regions?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

As he knows, this question has been asked of the Minister of Transport a number of times in this House. Also, he should know that the critic for his party and the Standing Committee on Transport are looking at rail rationalization.

I should point out to the members there is a regime in place called the National Transportation Agency that is to look at rail abandonment and rail rationalization. That is the vehicle by which rationalization is considered. No, we have no plans to declare a moratorium. There is a system in place for that to occur.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would have preferred my question to be answered by "yes". Perhaps I will get an affirmative answer to my supplementary question.

Is the Prime Minister prepared to reconsider government plans that are liable to further emphasize disparities between Eastern and Western Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to answer that question. I think that transportation is an important issue, and the parliamentary secretary answered the question well. However, at the present time, we have many programs to review. Just yesterday, his leader was asking us to cut budgets. Today, the hon. member is asking us to increase government spending.

Fisheries

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

In February of this year Canadian fishermen were absolutely elated that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans was able to obtain a NAFO moratorium on the fishing of 3NO cod. However that celebration was quickly muted by the fact that the European union abstained on the vote thereby retaining their right to fish this very endangered stock.

Can the minister tell us what the current status is? Has he been able to convince the European union about the seriousness of the situation off the east coast of Canada?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for that very difficult question.

As the member well knows the Prime Minister made clear on behalf of this government that we intended to deal with the problem of foreign and domestic overfishing and that we would do so by agreement if possible and by unilateral action if necessary.

I am pleased to report to the member that this morning in Brussels the European Council of Ministers unanimously ratified the February 17 moratorium on 3NO cod. The government promised action. We have begun the process of taking effective

action. More action will follow in the weeks and months to come.

Official Languages

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the answers we got to our questions were as good as the ones the Liberal members get from their ministers. Talk about mixed signals.

My question is for the minister of heritage. The minister of heritage released a 40-page book during the spring break telling Canadians that any and all questions about out of control costs of the Official Languages Act are based on misconceptions. He says it is a myth that the costs are in the billions and that the true cost of providing services in both official languages in 1992-93 was $319 million.

Can the minister tell this House why his number is dramatically lower than even the number of the Commissioner of Official Languages, which was $654 million?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the figures are correct but they do not pretend to cover all forms of support to the official languages of Canada.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is what we have been saying all along. The fact is that the true costs, the full costs, the direct and the indirect costs are not known. We have been asking in this House for a debate on that very issue. Will the minister commit to a debate on that very issue?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the figures are available. If my colleague has not been able to read them, I would be glad to provide them to him.

Fisheries

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, cod fishermen in the Gaspé region believe that there will be an increase in crab quotas and they want part of it. Of course, crab fishermen are defending their turf and tension is rising. Cod fishermen are poor and idle, many of them are nearing the end of their unemployment insurance benefits. They are fighting for a decent living, they are fighting to put bread on the table. The minister cannot keep on ignoring them.

My question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. Since the minister has not yet tabled his fishing plan for crab in zone 12, nor his plan for the future of fisheries, nor his financial aid program for fishermen, when is he going to give a clear answer? Will he wait for the situation to deteriorate even more?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question and for his interest in this matter. I offer him the same courtesy as I have done so in writing to both him and his leader and that is for a full briefing on any matter that affects the fishermen of Atlantic Canada.

I can tell him that while he has not found the time the fishermen and their unions in Quebec have found the time and I have met with them repeatedly on this subject. Were he as well briefed as they, he would know that within a matter of a few weeks both the Minister of Human Resources Development and I will announce a wide-ranging and comprehensive response to the fishing crisis in Atlantic Canada, one that is generous, one that recognizes the depth of the crisis in the region, but one that is responsible in terms of the fiscal capacity of the government of the day.

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by being indecisive, the minister has created tensions in the fisheries. Does he not recognize now that fishermen are expecting more than a government statement, that they want precise explanations on the decisions to come? People are waiting, tension is high.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, both the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Department of Human Resources Development have been engaged in the broadest consultation on the future of the fishery that has ever been undertaken by the Government of Canada in its history. We think that consultation is going to result in a positive, constructive and realistic announcement within a matter of a few weeks.

If the member is serious about wanting to know more he should take me up on the offer that I have given to the fishermen from the province of Quebec, fishermen from the Gaspé region, and come and receive a full briefing on the subject.

I would be interested in hearing the member's positive and constructive comment on this difficult situation. It is easy to make noise. Sometimes it is more difficult but more worthwhile to try and make some sense.

Justice

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Could the Prime Minister clarify the mixed signals his government is sending out on criminal justice. On one hand the justice minister talks about tightening the criminal justice system. On the other hand a senior Liberal member has been

widely quoted on his agenda of having lifers paroled at 15 years. The justice minister says he welcomes such suggestions.

Would the Prime Minister please tell the Canadian people which of these two members reflects the Liberal position?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, may I suggest that the hon. member is not being fair to the facts. The truth is that two weeks ago or perhaps three the chair of the justice committee, if that is the hon. member's reference, gave his own views with respect to penalties for murder. I was quick to say on that occasion that he did not speak for this government, that he was expressing his own view. Indeed, I disagree with him.

He is but one voice on a committee of 15 persons on which his own party is well represented. The committee will have ample opportunity to influence the policy of this government on criminal justice.

As to mixed signals, may I make it plain that our position has been uniform and clear throughout. It has been that we are going to deal with crime in this society just as we said on the platform, both by making the laws of this country more effective and enforcing them more effectively. That means, among other things, changes to the Criminal Code and the Young Offenders Act as necessary, at the same time recognizing the importance of crime prevention and all that that means to the same effort.

There are no mixed signals. Our position has been straightforward and consistent throughout.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians want action. They want a clear guarantee from the Prime Minister that killers who perpetrate drive-by shootings, kill people in restaurants and invade peoples' homes will be locked away until they are no longer a threat.

Will the Prime Minister give that guarantee today?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I spoke yesterday in response to a question in this House expressing my own horror at the recent savage and senseless crimes. I expressed my view as well that we must not let our anger and our concern regarding those recent events have us jump to conclusions about simple solutions to these problems.

Yes, it is time for action. As I said yesterday, this government is at present putting together proposals which will come soon to this House to make the criminal laws of this country more effective and also deal with the need to respect the importance of crime prevention in these initiatives.

Before long the hon. member and this House will see concrete action from this government.

Via Rail

[John Richardson, Liberal, Perth—Wellington—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this question is for the Minister of Transport or his designate, the secretary.

Recently the newspapers have been full of rumours about VIA Rail cuts to passenger rail service for Canadians, more specifically, the route from Sarnia, London, Stratford, Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Brampton to Toronto. This route is presently one of the most patronized routes in all of Canada.

Could the minister or his designate provide the assurance that this rail route will not be abandoned?