Debates of June 12th, 1996

Railway Safety

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is no. We have reviewed the situation from a safety point of view and our review has shown no increased risk. There is therefore no reason to try to reverse CN's decision.

I should point out that CN is now a private company. It can make any business decision that fiscal reality dictates in order to streamline its activities. We do not have to review every business decision made by private companies.

Justice

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the justice minister said that Bill C-45 will ensure that only the most appropriate and deserving cases are given consideration for early parole. In other words, the minister is creating categories of killers: good killers with special rights and bad killers without those rights.

What is the difference between a good killer and a bad killer, one that is deserving of special rights and privileges over one that is not?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in the first place we do not propose to repeal the section, as my hon. friend and his party would do, because we believe along with the vast majority of moderate Canadians that there is room for this in the law. We are not prepared to say that of the hundreds of people serving life for murder none of them should ever get the opportunity to come before a jury of peers from the community to ask for a shortening of the period.

We have proposed a significant tightening of the section. We said for all those in prison now serving time for murder there will be a tight screening mechanism before they ever get to a jury. That screening mechanism means that only those cases where a judge says there is a reasonable prospect of success under the test in section 745 will ever get to a jury. We have also said that any such jury would have to be unanimous in shortening the period of parole and eligibility, whereas now it is only two-thirds.

I suggest these measures will strengthen section 745, will improve it and will ensure that it is those exceptional cases of deserving applicants who get the remedy provided for.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the real penalty for multiple killers should be consecutive sentences. Clifford Olson should be serving 11 consecutive life sentences, not looking for early parole.

This serial killer, Clifford Olson, and those who are in jail today will still have the right to apply to a superior court judge for a hearing under Bill C-45, and a jury hearing may be granted.

Why has the justice minister not simply scrapped section 745 instead of introducing a bill that still allows Clifford Olson and hundreds of other first degree murderers to apply for early release?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes reference to some of the present prison population.

There are victims reported today in the press calling for the passage of the bill we introduced yesterday, victims' families calling for the passage of the bill.

If this bill is passed the present prison population will face a much tighter and significantly strengthened process under section 745. People who are now in prison will have to get past a judge in the screening process.

If the hon. member and his party are prepared to support us in getting this bill through, we can get it through by the summer break. If they do not, let us face it, they have a choice to make: will they support this bill and see it passed or will they stand in its way so that people now in prison will not have to face that screening mechanism before they get to a jury?

Official Languages

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Tomorrow, some 700 French-speaking employees of the CBC will have to vote on collective agreements written in English only. As we know, these agreements are extremely important, as they drastically change the nature of labour relations at that corporation as a result of the Liberal cuts.

Since the employer stated that francophones will have to read and vote in English, what does the Minister of Canadian Heritage intend to do to ensure that the CBC's francophone employees have access to a collective agreement in French before voting tomorrow?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and Acting Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, as the House knows, the CBC operates at arm's length from the government. Furthermore, I am well aware that the Commissioner of Official Languages has apprised the president of the CBC of the problem and that the president has given assurances he would take all necessary measures to comply with the law.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, may I remind the minister that people will vote on the agreement tomorrow.

Given her answer and the fact that the CBC's francophone employees do not have access to their collective agreement in French, that they must sign a petition and appeal to the Commissioner of Official Languages to get one, will the minister admit, without trying to dodge the issue, that this situation provides a concrete example of how Canada's francophones are indeed treated like second-class citizens?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and Acting Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I think that, as usual, Bloc members are exaggerating the facts.

As I said very clearly, Canada has an Official Languages Act that all crown corporations, including the CBC, must comply with. As I just said, the president of the CBC has assured us he would take all necessary measures.

Taxation

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the new value added tax is to replace the GST and PST through harmonization initially for New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.

Can the Minister of Finance explain how harmonizing sales taxes will eliminate duplication for small business and also save money for the consumers?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I think I can handle that.

At present small business has to maintain two sets of books, meet two sets of reporting dates and file two sets of forms. Most small businesses will say they are constantly tripping over tax auditors from either the federal government or provincial governments, which is why the Canadian Federation of Independent Business supports harmonization. The Canadian Association of Chartered Accountants has said it will save business over $500 million a year, which is in fact a modest assessment.

As far as consumers are concerned, with harmonization we will eliminate the cascading of taxes on each set, each stage of the production process. Provincial taxes are imposed; tax on tax on tax. This represents a disguised tax grab that is a penalty on jobs.

Consumers will benefit from lower prices, Canadians will benefit from lower prices and the economy will benefit from harmonization.

The Environment

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, two weeks ago I visited Nova Scotia to see the Sydney tar ponds, one of Canada's biggest environmental disasters. Yesterday I had the chance to see the Taro dump site in Hamilton. Both sites are in desperate need of a federal environmental assessment and yet it seems the minister is doing all he can to stay miles away from these controversies.

Sheila Copps had the power to hold full panel environmental reviews but never did. Is the new minister prepared to use his statutory powers or will he hide his head in the sand like his predecessor?

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the Sydney tar ponds, the minister has given his commitment before the committee that before the end of the term of the government something will be done with that situation.

The proposed Taro dump is under provincial jurisdiction. I suggest he speak to the provincial minister of the environment on that.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday marked Environment Canada's silver anniversary, but it is safe to say the clouds hanging over the minister's head have no silver lining.

These last few years of pathetic federal-provincial relations concerning the environment and poor legislation, all courtesy of Sheila Copps, have only hurt Environment Canada.

When will the minister stop behaving like Sheila Copps and start putting the environment ahead of personal political gains?

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the government welcomes the scrutiny of the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations.

We have made advances on the environmental agenda. We have reintroduced a bill to ban MMT, something the Sierra Club supports. We have introduced tough regulations on new car emissions and we have created an environmental commissioner.

We have important legislation that represents throne speech commitments that will address many of the concerns outlined in this report.

Aids Control

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

From July 7 to 12, people from all over the world will meet in Vancouver to discuss AIDS. In Canada alone, it is estimated that 15,000 people have AIDS, while about 50,000 more are HIV positive. Canada has had a national AIDS strategy since 1990. It has now reached phase II. However, the health minister has repeatedly refused to extend the strategy when it expires, in March 1997.

Given the imminence of the conference in Vancouver, will the Prime Minister use this opportunity to tell AIDS victims, community groups and members of the scientific community that there will be a phase III to the National AIDS Strategy?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this issue has to do with next year's budget. The health and finance ministers will discuss it. I am not in a position to report on it at this point.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

No respect for the conference in Vancouver, Mr. Speaker.

Will the Prime Minister confirm, as he is being asked by his five major national partners on the AIDS issue, that the current funding for the strategy will be maintained beyond 1997? This is important for AIDS victims.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the same answer applies for now. The issue is being reviewed. The Minister of Finance, along with each minister representing his or her respective interests, have discussions with the Department of Finance regarding the content of next year's budget.

The budget is usually tabled in February. If an announcement is to be made before then, the concerned ministers will do so. I cannot answer the question right now, because it would be premature to do so.

Human Rights

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the foreign affairs minister.

The governments of the world, including Canada, have made strong representations to the Government of Nigeria about its alleged human rights abuses. The desire for peaceful, democratic changes has been widely promoted around the world. Can the minister tell the House the progress made in this area?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to associate myself with the concern of the hon. member about the tragic and unacceptable developments taking place in Nigeria.

The matter was first brought forward by the Prime Minister at the Commonwealth meetings over a year ago when he asked that Nigeria be suspended from the Commonwealth. Since then we have held a meeting of CMAG, the Commonwealth ministers advisory group, at which a decision was taken on a number of sanctions that could be applied. Those are now being presented to various Commonwealth members. We are also undertaking to talk to the Europeans and the Americans to see if they would share in applying a series of economic sanctions.

I am hoping we will be able to get the full concurrence of the Commonwealth and these other partners so that we can make a very strong international statement that we will not accept the violations going on in Nigeria.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister whether he thinks it is time to stop threatening, talking and discussing sanctions and to start taking some real action by proposing that Nigeria be expelled from the Commonwealth until it is in a position to deal with this matter.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is presently suspended. I think it is the clear intention of

the Commonwealth ministers to see if this first round of actions and initiatives will have the necessary impact.

There will be a meeting with Chief Ikimi, the foreign affairs minister of Nigeria, in London next week, at which he will be presented with these alternatives. If the alternatives are not accepted and if we cannot get the kind of response and change we need, the kind of proposition put forward by the hon. member should be considered.

Health

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Recent American research shows that dioxins, which are cancer causing substances, are more dangerous to health than originally believed. In Canada safe dioxin exposure levels for humans have been under review for over a year.

Can the minister tell the House when he will inform the public of Health Canada's revised dioxin safety levels?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member will know exposure of Canadians to dioxins has declined over the last 20 years. This in part is the result of the effectiveness of controls that have been put in place to prohibit the creation of these unwanted substances.

Health Canada, as all members in the House will acknowledge, has been reviewing all available information on dioxins, as have other countries such as Sweden, Germany and the United States. Canada's current guidelines are similar to all other countries with the possible exception of the United States.

While we have no plans at this time to revise the guidelines, Health Canada will not hesitate to pursue any necessary additional measures if the dioxin data indicate we need to do so.