Debates of Oct. 3rd, 2024

Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour to rise on behalf of the residents of Kelowna—Lake Country.

I will be splitting my time today with the member for Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry.

I will start by correcting the record on some of the information that has been given by NDP and Liberal members here this morning. The first has to do with the voting record of the Conservatives on supporting the Canada disability benefit. I would note that on October 18, 2022, the bill passed second reading, which Conservatives supported. On February 2, 2023, it passed third reading, which Conservatives supported. When the legislation came back from the Senate on June 20, 2023, Parliament unanimously passed Bill C-22. I would like to correct the misinformation stated here this morning.

I would also like to bring up the importance of clawbacks not happening. The NDP interventions in particular today talked about clawbacks. I would note that when Bill C-22 was at the human resources committee, the Conservatives offered an amendment, through the legal department at the House of Commons, to protect persons with disabilities from clawbacks in the bill. That amendment was not supported at committee by the NDP, which the NDP brought up in this morning's interventions. I would note that it was Conservatives who tried to amend this legislation by putting forward good amendments to make it stronger, but unfortunately, they were not supported by the NDP and the Liberals.

I will next go through the timeline of this legislation, just to put it into context. There was an announcement by the government in 2020, in its throne speech, and Bill C-35 was tabled in the House of Commons in June 2021. The bill was nullified when the Liberal government called its unnecessary and expensive 2021 election, which stopped the whole process. After the election occurred, the government brought forward legislation again, which was Bill C-22, the Canada Disability Benefit Act, that then worked its way through Parliament. This legislation has been worked on for years. We heard from various stakeholders that previous to 2020, the government was reaching out to the disability community to gain input. This is something the government has been working on for a long time, and when it finally passed in February 2023, it was implemented.

However, during that entire time, the Liberal government kept saying it was doing lots of consultation. It made a lot of announcements with a lot of fanfare. Unfortunately, what transpired is a lot of broken promises. A number of individuals and disability groups have come out strongly stating that this is a Liberal broken promise.

With regard to clawbacks, I want to mention it was the Minister of Diversity, Inclusion and Persons with Disabilities who promised a red line on clawbacks at the human resources committee on October 31, 2022. Of course, we have seen that that did not occur.

As well, Conservatives really wanted more certainty in the legislation, because it was very vague. A lot was going to be determined behind closed doors with meetings and within the government itself, and we were trying to ensure that there would be more certainty in the legislation. Unfortunately, that was not supported.

Conservatives really believe that persons living with disabilities are some of those most affected by the cost of living crisis, and the cost of living crisis that has occurred over the last number of years is because of the policies and legislation of this Liberal government that have been propped up and supported by the NDP for nine years.

We know that there has been 40-year-high inflation. Housing costs have doubled. Record numbers of people are going to food banks. We had a different study at the human resources committee that had to do with intergenerational volunteerism. We heard at that study really incredible testimony from not-for-profits saying that their donations were down and that they had lost many volunteers, many of them seniors, because they had to go back to work, and that is putting a lot more pressure on the not-for-profit sector because of the cost of living crisis.

The human resources committee is meeting now. I am here in the chamber because this has been brought up, but right now, the human resources committee is finalizing a study. The topic has to do with disability in Canada. I just want to read part of the study because it does tie in to what we are discussing this morning.

Without reading the whole thing, the study says, that the committee expresses “its concern about the progress made towards the goal of a Canada without barriers by 2040”. It goes on: “[to study] the progress towards the goal of a Barrier Free Canada by 2040; [and] that the committee invite the Minister of Diversity, Inclusion and Persons with Disabilities”..

Today is the last day of that study. Unfortunately the minister has chosen not to come to committee, even though it is right in the motion to have her come to committee. She is hiding from the committee. We do not know any reason for that. Perhaps the Liberal members who are in the chamber here today can explain why she is hiding from our committee. This is a study that was originally brought forth—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the member opposite's suggestion that a minister is hiding is not appropriate in the chamber. The committee has the ability to call and request witnesses, but making a reference like that is unparliamentary, and I would ask that she retract that.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I thank the member for the input. I do not think that is anything unparliamentary. I suggest to the hon. member that suggesting that the member does not want to come is fully in.

The hon. member for Kelowna—Lake Country has the floor.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has not come to committee on this particular study. the cost of living crisis is affecting persons with disabilities, which does tie in to the Canada disability benefit, because Canadians, and in particular persons living with disabilities, are in a cost of living crisis.

We did hear a fair amount of testimony over the last couple of weeks on this, and I will quote a couple of witnesses who were at this committee. Mr. Lepofsky was questioned regarding the cost of living crisis and whether it is more difficult for Canadians living with disabilities who may be disproportionately affected by the cost of living crisis. His answer was, “When the Parliament, this committee and the Senate held hearings on the Canada disability benefit, you heard over and over how people living with a disability cost more.”

Another witness was just at committee, was asked a similar question. Mr. Janeiro's answer was, “The simple answer is yes. The slightly more complicated answer is yes, definitely.”

As such, we know that persons living with disabilities and those who support them, whether they are family members or other people in the community, do have extra financial challenges, so that is why it is important that we have these discussions. It is unfortunate that the Liberals' broken promises have really let down persons living with disabilities in Canada.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, there is a thing called the Conservative hidden agenda. Conservatives do not want to tell Canadians what they can actually expect if there was a Conservative government, because they know that they would lose a lot of support. Let me give us a good example of this. We made a commitment of $6 billion to this first-ever national program for people with disabilities.

Is the member prepared to commit? When the Conservatives talk about one of their slogans, that they are going to fix the budget, is she prepared to commit that not one dollar will be taken out of that program?

Will she commit to that today?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as I had mentioned in my intervention, Conservatives supported this legislation all the way through.

Every time we get close to a federal election, and this has happened for decades now, the Liberals' go-to talking point is hidden agendas. It really is a way to try to divert away from their complete mismanagement and failures. It is a way to divert away from the results of all of their policies and legislation that are leading more people to a food bank, that are creating crime and chaos in our communities. Canadian families are struggling and can barely afford to feed themselves. It is a typical diversion and this member does it quite often.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as usual, I enjoy debate back and forth where the Liberals and Conservatives argue about who is going to provide the most inadequate programs. The question that is actually before us today is not whether you support the existing program by the Liberals. The question that the New Democrats have put on the table is whether you support the original intention of this program, which was to create a benefit that would lift people with disabilities out of poverty.

Are you prepared to commit today that you would support lifting all people with disabilities out of poverty in this country or not?

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Of course, the Speaker cannot make that decision, so I will ask the hon. member for Kelowna—Lake Country.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as I had said, Conservatives have supported this legislation from the very beginning. This has been a broken promise by the Liberal government, which has been propped up by the NDP for the last nine years, until recently, when there was a dramatic ripping up of an apparent agreement. The NDP has been supporting the Liberal government right along the way. It is on New Democrats. They are the ones who have been supporting the government. This is just another Liberal broken promise.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what are my hon. colleague's thoughts on the fact that the goal of this motion is to lift people with disabilities out of poverty? What does that really mean to the Conservative Party? Will it commit, here and now, to doing everything in its power to lift people with disabilities out of poverty and prevent them from living in poverty?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this motion and this debate are very important. The time when we could have actually put in concrete action would have been when the legislation was coming through Parliament and when we were looking at making recommendations at the committee stage, because we would then have had more in the legislation. That is what Conservatives were trying to do.

Unfortunately, that was not supported by other members opposite. We are left with more policies to be coming out of the regulation part as opposed to being in legislation. That was what we were actually attempting to do at committee and what Conservatives were attempting to do.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the question I heard from the disability community in Waterloo region over the course of the summer on this topic was that they saw that the Conservative Party supported the legislation, Bill C-22. They also recognized, though, that the legislation was devoid of almost every important decision about the benefit, including how much it is going to be, when it is going to be delivered and who is going to be eligible for it.

The member for Kelowna—Lake Country did support Bill C-22 through the committee stage and did seek to improve it at committee stage.

What will the member and the Conservative Party commit to when it comes to lifting the 40% of folks with disabilities living in poverty across the country? What what will they do to lift those folks out of poverty, should they be in government one day?

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member has been a strong advocate, and he did come to our committee as well. He attempted to put some amendments into the legislation. When members from other parties continue to prop the government up, this is what we are left with. We are left with legislation that is very vague. As I mentioned, we tried to put more into the legislation itself. Now it is left at regulations and this is what we are left with.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have been known, particularly over the course of the last couple of years, to be pretty tough on the NDP, which is well-deserved and something I have done rightfully so, frankly.

For the last number of years, Canadians have had to watch in the House of Commons actions by the NDP, actions like we are seeing this morning with a debate it has brought forward to express its outrage and disbelief that the Liberals broke their promise. In this case, it has to do with the Canada disability benefit. I cannot count the number of times I have been in the chamber or watched question period and debates where NDP members have stood and been repeatedly frustrated and angry with the Liberals' announcements or the Prime Minister, who is the best at photo ops, and all these word salad feel-good statements and announcements, yet the NDP's follow-through is an abject failure time and time again.

After nine years of the Liberals, I could spend my entire time going through a litany of their broken promises and of Liberals not following through on their word. The part that is most frustrating is the disconnect between the NDP members' talk and their actions. They stand in the House like they do today in disbelief and outraged at the Liberals, who misled them by insisting they pass Bill C-22 to create a Canada disability benefit.

For years, the Liberals said they were consulting, they were thinking about it, they were working on it and they were doing all of this, only to announce something that the NDP is now devastated and jaw-dropped about, which is that the Liberals are not providing more supports for Canadians with disabilities. The Liberals broke their promise.

Here is the irony, though. For all that outrage, all the debate and all the tough talk by the NDP leader saying that he is fed up with the Liberals, is ripping up the coalition agreement, that people are fed up with the Prime Minister and that he has had enough, here we are at debate today to vote on a motion that is non-binding.

What was binding last week was the question called twice by Conservatives stating that we do not have confidence anymore in the Prime Minister and the NDP-Liberal government after nine years. What did NDP members do? They voted with the Liberals. They voted with the Prime Minister to keep the Liberals in office even longer.

Here we are again with the NDP members pretending and trying to have it both ways. For years and dozens and dozens of times on budgets, confidence votes, public accounts and in committees, including on this bill, they have voted with the Liberals.

When Conservatives tried to get amendments in this legislation that would have ensured we received more details in advance so Canadians would know those details, the Liberals refused to do it. We also tried to amend it so the clawbacks for Canadians with disabilities, who constantly face clawbacks from numerous programs, would be stopped. It was the NDP and Liberals who voted that down, and now the NDP stands in here today pretending to be outraged and stunned that the Liberals did not keep their word. It is because of what those two parties have done together over the course of the last few years.

We talk about how tough life is for Canadians, and it is disproportionately even more difficult for Canadians with disabilities. Two million Canadians a month are visiting food banks, housing prices and costs have doubled and rent has doubled. In Montreal, rent has tripled, as an example. That disproportionately affects Canadians with disabilities even more.

The Liberals put a carbon tax in, and their solution now is to quadruple it. If someone with a disability is struggling to make ends meet, quadrupling the carbon tax, driving up inflation and the cost of living and doubling housing costs, everything the Liberals have done while propped up by the NDP, has made life worse. It has made the financial situation for Canadians with disabilities even worse.

I do not buy the fake outrage by the NDP, which is putting this motion forward and telling Canadians it is doing something about it. At the end of the day, what we could do, and what the NDP should be doing, is voting non-confidence in the government. Let us have a carbon tax election so Canadians can decide on the direction of this country.

Instead, what did NDP members do this summer, which they are known to do well? I will call them out: a news release. It was a big, tough news release from the NDP critic for disability inclusion. She had had enough. She was furious with the Liberals and in disbelief. Here was the tough talk: “New Democrats are calling on the Liberals to stop delaying, listen to the advocates and the disability community, and fix this mess.” What would fix this mess? What would stop the delaying? Let us call an election. Let Canadians have their say on what they believe we need to do in this country to get back on track, get the cost of living crisis under control and make housing and rent more affordable.

The key thing I am proud of is the Conservatives' common-sense priorities. We may have said this a time or two in this House so that it is very clear to Canadians, but we are going to axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. Those things are very important to any Canadian struggling financially to deal with a disability they have.

NDP members say to fix this mess, but then they turn around when the question gets called. If they have had enough of the Prime Minister, if they have had enough of the broken promises and if they are ripping up the agreement and are fed up with the Liberals, they should not vote confidence in them. However, the NDP did that twice last week.

NDP members need to pick a lane, because Canadians see right through them every time. They cannot stand up here during a debate and be stunned that the Liberals did not keep their word and broke their promises. That has been their legacy for decades. They have been called out for this. The New Democrats propped up the Liberals and voted with them for three years, and they still do.

They stand here today telling the community of Canadians with disabilities that they are outraged, they are not going to take it anymore and they are going to stand up for Canadians. However, the Liberals will not change their ways. They have always been like this. They over-promise and under-deliver. They do not follow through. They say all the word-salad things they need to say, but when it comes to quality of life and affordability for Canadians with disabilities, it has never been worse. The NDP owns that record just as much as the Liberals do.

On this side of the House, my colleagues and I will continue to call out the New Democrats every step of the way, with the virtue signalling, fake outrage and constant surprise. They cannot believe the Liberals did this yet they vote for them time and time again. It is wearing the patience of Canadians pretty thin.

In addition to the common priorities we have stood for in this House, like axing the tax, building the homes, fixing the budget and stopping the crime, I am also proud of our leader specifically for his continued work to make work pay for Canadians with disabilities. However, there are a number of examples in this country of federal and other benefits not working for Canadians.

I will give an example from a Canadian I spoke with last summer. He had a terrible accident on vacation and became quadriplegic. He was an iron worker. When he moved to Toronto and could not work as an iron worker anymore, he went on CPP disability. He then made the determination that he wanted to go to university and become a professor, either at a college or a university. He applied to school, tried to get new employment because he could not do his union iron worker job anymore and was cut off CPP disability. He could not get an education. He could not retrain. So many clawbacks and barriers still exist.

I am proud to be part of a party that does not just talk and talk without delivering, but gives tangible, meaningful ways to help Canadians with disabilities. I am looking forward to the next election. Millions of Canadians are as well. We can give hope to Canadians with disabilities that real change can happen. We can make life more affordable, we can cut down barriers and we can improve the lives of millions of Canadians with disabilities. I look forward to whenever that election will be.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I rise to seek the unanimous consent of the House to give a speech on this debate for 10 minutes, with five minutes of questions.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Questions and comments, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I want to pick up on a question that I have asked a number of the member's colleagues. In particular, the critic was not able to give assurances.

Canadians are very much aware that the Conservative Party has what one would classify as a hidden agenda. The hidden agenda is something the Conservatives do not want to share with Canadians, because if Canadians were to find out what their real intentions were, they would not vote for the Conservative Party.

Let us use this as an example. Twice now I have asked a very specific question. There is a substantial budget commitment of just over $6 billion to provide funds for this program. The Conservative Party has said it is going to fix the budget. Can the member clearly indicate that not one dollar will be cut by the Conservative Party from this disability benefit?

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have already answered that question very clearly. We voted for this legislation to proceed. My colleague just before me outlined that several times. In addition, we talked about the amendments that the Liberals and NDP defeated, amendments to provide more clarity about what the benefits and eligibility were. They passed on that. There was also an amendment to ensure that clawbacks stopped so that if support was provided to someone with a disability who worked to earn extra income, it would not be clawed back. They voted that down.

We have been clear. We are going to support Canadians with disabilities in many ways. We will axe the carbon tax, build more homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. Those are well-known and established common-sense Conservative priorities. We have reiterated them in this House over and over again because that is what we are hearing about across the country. That is how out of touch the Liberals have become after nine years.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, folks often say that there are four stages in politics. The saying goes: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Judging from my colleague's speech, we are in the third stage.

However, I vividly remember the dark days of Harper's Conservative government. They attacked seniors by forcing them to retire two years later. They attacked veterans by reducing services. They attacked women's groups, scientists and science. Under the Conservatives, there were fewer public services, cuts and more cuts.

Today, thanks to the NDP, seniors and people with disabilities are getting dental care. People are getting pharmacare for contraceptives and diabetes medication.

Can my colleague assure the House that he will keep dental care, pharmacare and the disability benefit?

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as the NDP member wants to give analogies and sayings, I note that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. What is the NDP doing? It is outrage about all the things that Canadians need.

Under the Conservative government, people could afford food. People could afford rent and mortgages. Two million people per month were not going to a food bank in this country, many of whom have disabilities and are struggling to make ends meet. Everything the NDP does and has done in the last few years while propping up the Liberals has made life worse for Canadians.

I am proud of the Conservative government record of making life more affordable for Canadians so they can afford food, a house and the cost of living. What do the New Democrats do? In keeping with the definition of insanity, they keep voting with the Liberals despite their outrage at how bad life has gotten for Canadians with disabilities.

The New Democrats have absolutely been complicit in their record in the last few years. They own it just as much as the Liberals do.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I did not really hear an answer to the question my colleague asked earlier. We heard about the grants to women's rights groups that were cut under the Harper government. I could also talk about employment insurance. Today we are talking about benefits for people with disabilities.

If the Conservatives come to power, will they commit to maintaining these gains for people who are in a more precarious situation? That was the question that was asked earlier. The answer is a simple yes or no, but I hope it is a yes. It is a simple answer to give.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I always have a difficult time when I have to debate in the chamber with Bloc Québécois members because they do not make sense. Here is a separatist party that wants decentralized power from Ottawa, and it is voting and constantly advocating for more money, more taxes and more control by the national government. It is hard to debate them when they are constantly changing their core principles.

To answer the question we have already answered, we voted in favour of this legislation. Our leader and our party have been very clear. We are going to work to make life more affordable for Canadians with disabilities. We are going to make rent, food prices and the cost of living more affordable. We are going to end the clawbacks that are holding Canadians with disabilities back as opposed to them finally getting ahead.

After nine years of the Liberals, propped up by the Bloc and the NDP, happily enough is enough.