Bill C-39 Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2026

[Mike Leonard]

Thank you for the question. I'll take it.

Our members have the primary relationship, because their operations are on first nations land. The BCMEA has a relationship with first nations, but it's not the same relationship the employers have, because of the nature of the difference. They own the operation; we don't.

In recognition of first nations' contributions to the waterfront and the fact that we are on their land, we have recognition of them. We've done a variety of things. We partnered with them to create a mural to represent the historical significance of first nations on the waterfront in British Columbia. That's been painted on the side of our Vancouver dispatch hall. It was done last year. We also worked with the Squamish Nation and the other first nations in the Lower Mainland to advance their issues. We just sponsored the Back to the Fire program, which is essentially a historical view of first nations history and the challenges they had in the country.

We take a supportive role where we can, but we don't have direct dealings with them in relation to commercial matters.

I'll end it there.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Peters, do you have anything to add?

[Alicia Peters]

Our members have direct relationships but also through the port authorities, which are landlords. We work together to have sustainable and important relations with them.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette—Manawan, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

We'll move to the five-minute round with Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Lee, given your experience with the railways and your current representation of the shippers, I'm going to talk to you about interswitching. I've never seen someone who's worked for both the Hatfields and the McCoys, so that's impressive.

Perhaps we'll start very generally. Could you explain what interswitching is and why it's so important to your members?

[Warren Lee]

Interswitching, at a very high level, adds competition to the playing field. Canada has two carriers, effectively a duopoly, both with very geographically specific advantages. Interswitching would allow for that circle to basically increase, to allow more people to have access to either one of those two carriers within Canada.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you very much.

Of course, Bill C-39 contains a temporary allowance of interswitching within 160 kilometres. Conservatives would like to see that become permanent. Would you support that, and why would that be important?

[Warren Lee]

Yes, absolutely.

We would support permanency around the interswitching. It's important to the membership in the sense of—and I've heard it here a couple of times today—the planning process and the certainty around business. No investor or manufacturer will build a plant on the potential to have the ability to operate within one of the two class one railways for a year or two. These decisions are made with 10- and 20-year runways, so the permanency of interswitching is what will inform those business decisions.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

In addition to the time frame, there are also economic or financial contributions that go to building infrastructure around this as well. Is that correct?

[Warren Lee]

Absolutely.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Okay.

Currently in Bill C-39, it's limited to 160 kilometres. Would you like to see an expansion of that?

[Warren Lee]

Yes, I think so.

We've been talking about the 160-kilometre range simply because that's where we've seen the two historical trials of 160 kilometres. It's arguable that it could definitely be expanded beyond that. Primarily though, it's having the permanency of it. It would be the number one pillar to attack on that one.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

I have one final potential amendment that I'd like to discuss with you.

That's to have the interswitching commence within 90 days of this bill's receiving royal assent. Is that something your industry would support?

[Warren Lee]

Absolutely. The sooner, the better. The sooner this can be enacted, whether it's on a permanent basis or is temporary, the more shippers will be able to take advantage of it, increasing that competitive landscape as we look to diversify our trade.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

In summary, your industry, as well as many other folks who have an economic interest in Canada, would like to see permanent interswitching to promote competition in our economy and to hopefully raise the standard of living for all Canadians. Is that fair?

[Warren Lee]

Absolutely, yes. That's a fair statement.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Clarke, ON]

Thank you very much.

Do you want to go ahead?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you.

I hope that's all right, Mr. Chair.

Just going back to the earlier point in regard to Ms. Peters, you also mentioned the trade council itself. The trade council will be receiving.... The minister can receive information from the CTA, and the minister can then share that with this supply chain council. I don't deny that the minister should have some counsel, but there is no information about who these individuals will be, whether or not they are currently in the workforce or if they are going to be accessing proprietary information that there could be conflicts of interest on.

Could you please share with me and the committee what you think this supply chain corridor should be looking at in terms of membership and in terms of what information they should be receiving?

[Alicia Peters]

Yes. I think consultation is what's really important, bringing stakeholders together at the table to discuss what it should look like. There's no doubt that it can play a really important role, but it will depend on how it's structured. What is its mandate? How does it interact with other bodies, like BCMTOA or the greater Vancouver gateway council, for example. What is the relationship that it has? Who is on it? Is it industry? Are they retirees? That can be a challenge if they're not in the sector anymore, as many things change quickly. We are interested to see.... There are a lot of powers for it, and we understand some of the reasons it is being created. We do understand and support that, but we want to be consulted on its creation, its makeup, its mandate and how it interacts with other bodies.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Next is Mr. Kelloway for five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for coming today.

My first question is actually for Mr. Leonard.

Canada's ports compete internationally, Mr. Leonard, for cargo, investment and long-term commercial relationships. I'm looking to see, from your perspective, sir, what the economic consequences are when there's prolonged labour uncertainty with respect to international customers. We've heard that international customers have questioned the reliability of Canadian transport networks, based on employer-employee disruptions. I wonder if you can speak to the economic consequences, sir.

[Mike Leonard]

A recent example—an unfortunate example, for that matter—was in 2023 and 2024. We had a total of 24 days on which we affected 19.2 billion dollars' worth of cargo moving in across the gateway of the west coast. When shippers see that, they do a couple of things. They gauge whether they're going to engage further with the service in the area that's affected, and they start diverting cargo. When that happens, that creates untold impacts. The cargo basically finds itself in U.S. gateways. In other words, Canadian jobs are not unloading the cargo.

The other piece is that it has a trickle-down effect economically. The impacts go well beyond the waterfront. The impacts are nationwide. It starts impacting rail, which affects the resource side of the equation in Canada. The auto sector in Ontario is affected from a just-in-time parts perspective. The cascade is significant. A lot of innocent third parties are being hit economically, and they have nothing directly to do with the dispute.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Mr. Leonard, in the same vein, in terms of the impacts of the uncertainty, is there anything quantifiable in terms of jobs lost or jobs that we could have had if there were that line of sight and that certainty? That would be, I think, very much highlighted in this bill in terms of different facets from labour to the supply chains. Can you give us a sense—if you have that, sir, whether it's quantifiable or anecdotal—of the potential employment loss when that certainty is not there?