Environment Committee on Dec. 1st, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, colleagues.

Today is meeting number 18 of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

This meeting is taking place in a hybrid format and is in public.

For those in person, please follow the health and safety guidelines on the cards found on the table to prevent audio or feedback incidents.

Today, the committee is studying the supplementary estimates (B), 2025–2026 and the mandate of the Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

The committee is meeting with the Honourable Julie Dabrusin, Minister of Environment and Climate Change, who is here to discuss both studies.

The minister is accompanied by the following witnesses.

We have Mollie Johnson, deputy minister.

Next, we will have Linda Drainville, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer of the corporate services and financial management branch.

We also have Megan Nichols, assistant deputy minister, environmental protection branch, and Alison McDermott, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy and international affairs branch.

From the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada, we have Terence Hubbard, president; Éric Landry, vice-president of operations; and Patricia Brady, vice-president, strategic policy and programs.

Minister, I have yellow sign that indicates that you have one more minute to speak. Then, I turn it over and ask you to please end your sentence. That's it.

You have up to five minutes for an opening statement. The floor is yours.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee for having me here today.

I'd like to begin by recognizing that we are meeting on the traditional territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation.

I'm happy to be here to discuss my mandate and the 2025-26 supplementary estimates (B) under my portfolio, which includes Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada and the Canada Water Agency.

With me today, as you noted, Mr. Chair, are Mollie Johnson, deputy minister of environment and climate change, and Terence Hubbard, president of the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.

This is a defining moment for Canada. The decisions we make today will shape our country for generations to come. Around the world, economies are undergoing a historic transition toward low-carbon energy and technology. This is reshaping trade, investment and jobs at a pace not seen since the Industrial Revolution. It's changing the way we drive, the way we heat and cool our homes, the way we work, and the way we build and power our country.

This transition represents a real opportunity for Canada to be a leader in the economy of the future. That's why in budget 2025, we released the climate competitiveness strategy. The strategy is rooted in a simple truth: Addressing climate change is both a moral obligation and an economic imperative. This strategy provides clarity on fiscal, regulatory and industrial policies to create certainty for businesses to invest, innovate and compete internationally, all while reducing emissions. It also supports major projects to be built more effectively and efficiently.

For example, the Iqaluit Nukkiksautiit hydroelectric project will become Nunavut's first 100% Inuit-owned hydroelectric facility, a milestone in clean energy innovation. This will replace Iqaluit's dependence on 15 million litres of imported diesel each year. This project will advance economic competitiveness while modernizing our infrastructure and lowering emissions.

Climate change is a global challenge that knows no borders. This fall, I co-chaired the G7 and the ministerial meeting on climate action in Toronto, before leading the Canadian delegation at COP30 in Brazil to reaffirm our commitment and strengthen our climate leadership on the international stage. However, this international leadership must be backed by concrete action here at home. Canadians are already feeling the effects of climate change: heat waves, forest fires, droughts, floods and more. These events damage infrastructure and weaken local economies, while affecting our health and natural environments.

Nature conservation is one of the most effective ways to reduce these risks. Healthy ecosystems absorb carbon, protect communities and preserve biodiversity. That's why we are continuing our conservation efforts in partnership with the provinces, territories, indigenous nations and local communities. This summer in the Northwest Territories, I announced our land for the future, an important, indigenous-led conservation project.

We are also making generational investments to strengthen our sovereignty. Budget 2025 provides $2.75 billion over nine years to Environment and Climate Change Canada and Shared Services Canada to acquire a new high-performance computing solution, essential to providing the advanced climate and weather data that Canadians depend on.

Turning to the 2025-26 supplementary estimates (B) for my department, these estimates represent a net proposed increase of $2 million. Some of these changes include a request for $4.9 million over five years, beginning 2025-26, for the extension of the Inuit impact and benefit agreement.

There are also transfers to and from the department—for example, to the Canadian Space Agency and Indigenous Services Canada.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to stop here. I'm happy to take questions from members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Branden Leslie, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

At the UN's International Maritime Organization meeting, your government voted in favour of a new net-zero carbon tax on shipping. Witnesses told this committee that this tax could cost up to $500 per tonne, which will obviously get passed on to Canadians through higher prices for everything that we buy that's shipped here.

Do you have any idea whatsoever what this is going to cost Canadians through higher prices?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

This has long been an issue that I hear in questions coming from the Conservatives, the idea that any action on climate change is a net negative not only for our country but for the world.

We know that the impacts of climate change—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'm just looking for the cost of the tax.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Pardon me?

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Has the department done any estimates on what the tax would cost for the average item in Canada, and therefore the cost to Canadians when it's passed on to them?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

For the policies that we have in place, we are ready....

I have said this before: Actions such as the industrial carbon price do not increase the cost of food for Canadians.

When we're talking about the policies that we actually have in place in Canada, whenever we pass a regulation, we provide a regulatory assessment, and it is available and transparent—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Minister. I look forward to seeing that, once that tax is implemented.

However, you talked about the policies that are still in place. For years, you defended every major climate policy that this government introduced—the carbon tax on consumers, the program to plant two billion trees, the emissions cap on oil and gas, the greenwashing regulations and the EV mandate. Then, almost overnight, they were delayed, watered down or abandoned entirely. Now, every time one of these policies seems to collide with reality, it falls apart.

What should Canadians conclude from this pattern of your supporting policies and then having to step back from them?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I think what Canadians should take from the work our government is doing is that we are working forward for policies that are collaborative, meet the needs of Canadians and fight climate change.

We have very much set forward, as it says in the climate competitiveness strategy that was in the budget, that we are working to strengthen the industrial carbon price and strengthen methane regulations. We're working on a taxonomy for investment guidelines. We are taking real actions, and we're doing that in collaboration with provinces and territories and making sure that Canadians are at the centre of our policies.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Minister.

Somebody not at the centre who used to be at the centre, former environment and energy minister Jonathan Wilkinson, publicly said that your new climate competitiveness strategy isn't a climate strategy at all.

Do you agree with him? Is he wrong?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

We have a climate strategy, which is our emissions reduction plan, and we provide progress reports based on that emissions reduction plan.

The climate competitiveness strategy is really the economic piece, putting in place things that were envisioned by the emissions reduction plan, but also going further in some places. It is not the emissions reduction plan. That is a separate document. It is a tool to move forward on climate competitiveness.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you for raising that.

The environment commissioner, the PBO, the independent experts and pretty much everyone, except for you, have agreed that you will not hit the Paris targets as originally intended.

Can you finally admit that your emissions reduction plan is not working and will not achieve the targets that you've laid out?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I am the environment minister, first of all, but second of all, the PBO report specifically did not take into account the climate competitiveness strategy, and if we take into account—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I thought there was a climate strategy, though. You just said it wasn't a climate strategy. Why would we need to take that into account?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No, I didn't say that. I said there was an emissions reduction plan and that the climate competitiveness strategy does not replace the emissions reduction plan.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Is everybody else wrong in saying that we're not going to hit these targets? Are you right and everyone else is wrong?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

What I have said—if you'd let me complete that one—is that we always knew that the targets would be ambitious. We could have set low targets and we could have stood by lower targets, and they would be easy to meet. These targets require us to stretch. We're determined to keep doing the work to meet them, but it's going to take continued work.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Could you tell me the gap in raw numbers between the 2030 target and where we are going to end up in 2030? What is that gap right now?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

An emissions reduction plan that will be provided by the end of this year will provide more detail as to exactly where those different numbers stand, but, by the way, the commitment to continue doing the work remains.

I think that's a very important piece, and I would hope that the Conservatives would be willing to support us, because all I hear from Conservatives is that they want to remove every single thing we do—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you, Minister. You're going to keep on keeping on, and that's great.

Could you tell this committee if there's any specific environmental or climate policy that is simply non-negotiable—a red line that, if crossed, would have you resign, just like Minister Guilbeault did?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Is there a single environment policy or climate change policy that the Conservatives will support and help us actually move forward on?

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Minister, I'm here to ask you the questions. This is not about you asking a member of the opposition questions; this is about you answering a question.

Is there a line in the sand of a specific environmental or climate policy such that if this government, despite your objections, decided to remove it, you would have to resign over it, just like Minister Guilbeault did?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

My goal in everything I do is to keep working to move our country to a low-carbon economy, to net zero, and to keep doing the work that we need to do. It's important for our future generations and it's important to make sure that we're globally competitive.