Environment Committee on Dec. 1st, 2025

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No. What I would tell you is that I have the ability to negotiate a pathway to meet the objectives of a regulation with all provinces. I think it's really amazing that Alberta is going to sit down and do that negotiation.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You suggested earlier, in your opening remarks, that there was a climate cost of food, yet the industrial carbon tax is still applied to fertilizer production, grain drying, farm equipment, etc. You've made great speeches in the House to the effect that this is not a tax and has no impact on food prices.

Isn't that an oxymoron? I mean, that's ridiculous. You say there's a cost of food for all these other things, yet you're taxing the means of production of food and saying it doesn't impact the price at the grocery store. Can you explain that, please?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I can even provide the studies to this committee, if you want.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Would you?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I will, absolutely.

There are studies time and time again, in fact, that say the industrial carbon price does not increase the cost of food.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Then what does it impact? Does it just impact the viability of farms, so farms get smaller—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Emissions are—

No, it actually does not—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

—and farms consolidate to bigger farms?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Small farms aren't impacted by the industrial carbon price.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

They're not impacted by it at all. Then are the carbon taxes that I'm paying as a producer imaginary?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The industrial carbon price applies to large industry. It applies in different ways in different parts of our country—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I pay carbon tax on the electricity, equipment and fertilizer that I use to run my farm. Are you saying that's imaginary?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I would love to see how you're breaking that down, but what I am telling you—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

It's with dollars—real dollars.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

You wouldn't have a line, sir, that says anywhere “industrial carbon price”.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Because it's hidden, yes, but the price has gone up on everything.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

It's not hidden. It's not that. I'm just saying that I don't see where you're seeing it.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Minister, to the next question, are you constitutionally impaired from saying the word “oil pipeline”?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That's actually a very funny question.

Does it matter to you what words I use—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I appreciate the hilarity of it.

You said that there was a lot of discussion about the pipeline, but a pipeline is a binary thing; either we build a pipeline, or we don't. There's no middle ground.

Do you support a pipeline?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I support our provinces working together. If they want to work together—

No, but that is what the memorandum of understanding with Alberta is about.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Ultimately, it leads to a pipeline or no pipeline, one or the other.

Do you support a pipeline?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I support that if the provinces and the indigenous peoples are in agreement then there is a pathway to actually make that happen, but I am not going—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

To make what happen?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

For a pipeline.