Evidence of meeting #14 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jamieson.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I'll wrap up in three seconds.
You were aware that the minister's office was “besties” with WE Charity, but you went ahead. That's why you went ahead to give this money, even though Treasury Board said WE Charity—
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Chair, I'm sorry, but on a point order, that's more than three seconds.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Madame Shanahan. I was about to speak at the same time you were.
Ms. Kovacevic, because of the magnitude of this question, I'll allow you to answer.
2:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Thank you.
Mr. Poilievre, with respect to the Treasury Board Secretariat and their interpretation, assumptions and whatever, I think it's best, obviously, that I should not speculate. You should ask TBS.
With respect to my email that you referenced, I would like to explain to the committee that, as I've said previously, my language is very casual. At this point in time, I am aware, as is in my previous testimony, that my minister's office had engaged with WE Charity. I am casually calling them “besties”, referencing simply that there is engagement with the charity.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you very much.
We'll now move on to Mr. Dong for five minutes.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I want to thank those public servants for accepting our invitation and being here at the committee answering some important questions.
I will go to Ms. Kovacevic.
Ms. Kovacevic, how many times have you appeared before a parliamentary committee?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Do you mean in my career?
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
No, I mean in responding to the recent matter with regard to WE Charity.
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
This is the second time, sir.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
No, sir. I always tell the truth.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Certainly not intentionally.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Have you ever been uncooperative or have you ever obstructed the proceedings of a committee?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Never.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Let's switch gears a bit.
Prior to April 22, when the Prime Minister announced the CSSG program, how many conversations had you had with representatives of WE?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
I had one conversation, a phone conversation, on April 24, between me, my colleague at ESDC, Mr. Kielburger and Sofia Marquez.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Great.
Prior to the April 22 announcement, how many different proposals did WE Charity send to you on the student program?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
To me directly, there were none. I only obtained proposals from either ESDC or my minister's office.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Great.
How many times did either the minister or his staff instruct you to choose WE Charity for the administration of the CSSG program?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Nobody at any time instructed me to do any choosing of a charity. We carefully and thoughtfully came to the decision in the end that WE Charity was the best-placed organization to deliver—in COVID times, in the very, very tight time frame—what the ambitious scope of desire was.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
I know my colleagues on the other side may be a bit confused on this point, so I want to clarify for the record. Did officials at ESDC make the recommendations to Minister Chagger that the government enter into a contribution agreement with WE Charity?
2:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
That is a question for ESDC, but yes, I do know that is the case.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you.
Now I will move on to Ms. Fox.
Ms. Fox, I'm just following up on some previous questions. Who would know better if you debriefed the Deputy Prime Minister, you or the Kielburgers?