Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Once again, keep in mind there are nearly 60,000 employees. Obviously, not all employees are aware of all the work that the security team, other teams and partners are doing to try to improve the systems.

Furthermore, I have a problem with the use of the term “whistle-blower” in our situation. The information that was publicized in the media was already made public in the Auditor General's reports and the evidence of the Standing Committee on Finance and the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. The media didn't say anything new. Perhaps it was news to the general public, but the agency and parliamentarians already knew it.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Okay. I will get back to that in the next round. Thank you.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Villemure.

Mr. Green, you have six minutes. Go ahead.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Minister, I have to state right off the top that I found your responses to Mr. Chambers highly evasive. I'm going to give you the opportunity to reply on the Nixon test. I'm going to start with an agreed statement of fact that you've raised.

You stated that the AG reported in 2022 that 23,000 accounts had been breached. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You took office in 2023. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

In that transition, you would have been updated on the breaches in 2022. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You would have been aware that some $190 million in scams due to hacking came from losses that went as far back as 2020. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

We now know that in July, 31,000 accounts were breached. Is that correct?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, it's reasonable.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

When did you know that the 31,000 accounts had been breached? Was that back in July 2024?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I can't be that specific.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Why not?

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Because I don't recall every briefing I've gotten in the last year.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

This is a significant breach.

[Marie-Claude Bibeau, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I know, but you're asking me about specific numbers.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Respectfully, Minister, we're talking about a material breach of the privacy of thousands of people, regarding hundreds of millions of dollars, in your department.

Mr. Hamilton, I'll put to you the Nixon test. At what point in time did you know these breaches happened?

[Bob Hamilton]

I am kept regularly aware of the breaches that happen. I think, just for clarification—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The date, sir. I'd like to know the date that you knew.

[Bob Hamilton]

I don't know the dates off the top of my head.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You don't know the date.