Evidence of meeting #26 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Greenhill  President, Canadian International Development Agency
Jean-Pierre Kingsley  Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Good afternoon, committee. This is meeting number 26 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development for Wednesday, November 1, 2006.

In our first hour we will consider the main estimates, and in our second hour we will return to our study on democratic development, the committee's major study on Canada's role in international support for democratic development around the world.

In the first hour we're very pleased to have appear before us the Honourable Josée Verner, the Minister of International Cooperation.

Welcome, Minister. It is so good to have you back.

This is the minister's third appearance before our committee.

We also have as witnesses this afternoon, Robert Greenhill, president of the Canadian International Development Agency; Diane Vincent, executive vice-president; and Marc St-Laurent, director of resource management, human resources and corporate services branch.

I should also say we're beginning our study on the main estimates for 2006-07. The minister for the Canadian International Development Agency is here to discuss the votes that fall under her agency, which are votes 30, 35, L40, L45, and L50.

The minister has an opening statement, and I invite her to take the floor.

Thank you, Minister.

3:35 p.m.

Louis-Saint-Laurent Québec

Conservative

Josée Verner ConservativeMinister of International Cooperation

Mr. Chair, it's a pleasure for me to appear once again before my colleagues of this committee, this time to talk about the Main Estimates of the Canadian International Development Agency.

I have asked senior officials from CIDA to accompany me here. They are Mr. Robert Greenhill, President; Ms. Diane Vincent, Executive Vice-President; and Mr. Marc St-Laurent, Director, Resource Management.

In the 2006 budget, the government stated its commitment and increased resources allocated to foreign aid by eight percent. It also made a commitment to double the international aid envelope from its 2001-2002 level by 2010-2011. CIDA's Estimates for 2006-2007 reflect that commitment. Relative to 2005-2006, it's proposing a net increase of $198.8 million from CIDA's reference level.

In addition, in the Throne Speech, the government clearly stated its commitment to implement an accountability regime and to make more efficient use of funding that Canada allocates outside the country.

That is why CIDA's plans and priorities for 2006-2007 are focused on improved efficiency of Canadian aid.

Canada is internationally recognized as one of the efficient donors and a responsible manager of resources allocated to development aid. And yet, although the aid granted by Canada produces tangible results, we think that we can, and that we should, do more to maximize the effects of our aid.

The past 10 years have taught us a great deal about what can make aid more efficient. There is now an unprecedented international consensus on the approach to take.

With the lessons we have learned about making aid more efficient, we are implementing a program divided into four parts: a more strategic concentration of our programs; enhanced program delivery; more efficient utilization of the agency's resources; and clear accountability for results, with the 2007 filing of CIDA's first annual report on development results.

We have started to concentrate our resources in countries where needs are great, in countries that can use aid efficiently, in countries where our action can have a decisive effect. In this fiscal year, we will re-examine our approach in order to focus our resources even further.

For example, the Afghanistan and Haiti programs are among the biggest. This reflects the government's commitment to promoting stability and supporting reconstruction in those countries in crisis. Vulnerable states deserve particular attention and concerted cross-government intervention. These countries have problems in the areas of security, stability and poverty reduction. This is as true for their own nationals as it is for Canada and for development cooperation in general.

I would also like to emphasize that Africa is still a major beneficiary of the government's programs. However, we will continue to respond to significant needs elsewhere, whether it be in the Caribbean, Latin America or Asia.

In Afghanistan, together with 59 other countries, Canada is helping the Afghan population rebuild its country. We support the establishment of conditions conducive to sustainable economic well-being, so that the Afghans have the tools they need to invest in their future. Here I'm talking about access to education, health care and credit.

But what have we accomplished thus far?

Canada has assisted 139,000 Afghans, the majority of them women, in obtaining small loans to start up their micro businesses, and to buy tools and farm animals in order to support their families. More than $70 million has been distributed in this way in 18 Afghan provinces. The repayment rate is 98%.

More than 10,000 community development councils have been created in the country. With Canada's support, these councils have carried out approximately 5,000 community projects designed to improve health and hygiene as well as the quality of life of thousands of Afghan families. A number of other projects are under way.

Afghanistan has adopted a new constitution and held presidential and parliamentary elections. Five million children are going to school, one-third of them girls. More than 65,000 land mines have been destroyed since 2002.

We can celebrate these successes and we are proud to contribute to them. In May 2006, the Prime Minister announced that Canada would maintain the level of funding for development in Afghanistan at $100 million a year until 2011.

Haiti is another country that needs our aid to get back on its feet. It is the poorest country in the Americas. Canada has a lot of experience in Haiti, and, over the years, has earned the trust and friendship of Haitians. Moreover, the sizable Haitian diaspora living in Canada can provide links to help rebuild this country. For decades, Canadian non-governmental organizations, universities and institutions, starting with religious communities in Quebec, have worked in Haiti, where close links have been formed between the two populations. These links, which have been built over the years, constitute today one of the main strengths of Canadian cooperation in Haiti.

I'd now like to turn to two of the priority areas of our international development actions, democratic governance and gender equality. Democratic governance is a crucial issue. In order to lay the groundwork for lasting progress, a society must maintain a climate of peace and security. This is only possible in a democratic society, one built on a foundation of freedom, human rights, the rule of law, justice and the accountability of public institutions. It is for this reason that democratic development will be a vital element of all our bilateral programs.

Gender equality remains in the forefront of our work. This is one aspect of all our areas of intervention. Gender equality is a priority of this government, a priority for CIDA and definitely one of my personal priorities. In many developing countries, experience has shown that in order to reduce poverty, create wealth and safeguard human rights, nothing is more effective than concrete actions that permit women to take advantage of their great potential. That is why we need programs and funding that specifically target support to the economic and social development of women and to reinforce their rights.

During my stay in Mali this summer, I visited a number of CIDA projects that are helping to improve living conditions for women and children. For example, I visited one of the branches of the Nyesigiso savings and investment cooperative system. CIDA provides financial support to this system, which helps Malis, particularly women, improve their means of livelihood and promotes development of the micro-finance sector in Mali. I even opened a personal account at one of the cooperatives to show my support.

The second part of our new agenda is intended to improve the delivery of our aid programs. To support international development, the new government is resolved to involve Canadians across the country. Last June, I launched the new Voluntary Sector Fund. With a $20 million budget, this fund supports development projects implemented by Canadian organizations, in partnership with organizations in developing countries. The Voluntary Sector Fund is aimed at Canadian non-governmental organizations, institutions and associations, in particular diasporic groups. Our Canadian partners work in cooperation with our Southern partners. Together they are carrying out projects and programs whose objectives are consistent with Canada's development priorities, particularly in the areas of poverty reduction and human rights. The purpose of this approach is to increase aid efficiency, particularly by strengthening the capabilities of civil society and enabling local groups to take charge of initiatives.

Mr. Chair, the role of civil society in international development is crucial, and CIDA's experience in the past 40 years has shown this. The partnership between CIDA and non-state stakeholders is a major factor in Canada's contribution to international development. I want to ensure that Canada is the leader is recognizing civil society in the Paris Declaration. We will work together to make this happen.

Our program of work includes working on multilateral effectiveness on key issues such as HIV/AIDS, environmental sustainability, and humanitarian assistance. Canada will continue to work with organizations that are the most effective in achieving these objectives.

The third component of our agenda is aimed at a more efficient use of our resources. We're currently exploring several paths to follow to accomplish this. We will remain on track in the move to untie levels of aid.

We will strive to reduce our level of spending on administration. I will also see to it that CIDA's presence is felt even more in the field.

Lastly, our agenda seeks to strengthen performance measurement and reporting. CIDA and its partners work in some of the worst, most dangerous, and unpredictable environments. Conditions often include armed conflict, famine, infectious disease, extreme poverty, and natural disasters, as well as unpredictability arising from economic instability.

Our ability to assess and manage risk underpins the effectiveness of CIDA's investments. In keeping with the new government's priority on accountability and our aid effectiveness agenda, I will table in 2007 the first annual report on development results. Through this report Canadians will see that the lives of the poor in developing countries have been positively affected through CIDA's support.

The government is also committed to strengthening health systems in developing countries. We will contribute $450 million between 2006 and 2016 to support country-led efforts to strengthen health systems in Africa. This will address major weaknesses today, leading to improved health outcomes in Africa and to concrete progress in terms of meeting the millennium development goals.

A report on Canada and health results is available for your information.

Mr. Chair, in my remarks today I have given the members of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development a very brief outline of CIDA's plans and priorities for the current year, including our four-part agenda on how to improve aid effectiveness.

Now I would be pleased to respond to any questions the members of the committee may have.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madam Minister, for your comments.

We'll go into the first round, which is a ten-minute round. We'll begin with the opposition.

Monsieur Patry, vous avez dix minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm going to share my time with my colleague Mr. Martin.

Thank you, minister, Mr. Greenhill, Mr. St-Laurent and Ms. Vincent, for being here with us.

As we only have 10 minutes, I'm going to move right away to questions.

As in previous years, CIDA considers better health one of its sectoral investment priorities, in its report on plans and priorities for 2006-2007. Could the minister give the committee, through our clerk, detailed information on CIDA's spending on health, by providing overall figures, a full breakdown of expenditures by the geographic programs of Canadian partnerships and multilateral programs? We don't want to have that right away, because we know it will take a very long time to submit those documents to us.

My question is as follows: Part III of the 2006-2007 Estimates doesn't provide details on CIDA's expenditures for fighting malaria. Could the minister provide us with detailed information on CIDA's spending in that area, as regards both new announcements and cuts made in old programs?

I have a second question.

Could the minister explain why CIDA has chosen to support a UNICEF program in Ethiopia knowing that UNICEF admitted publicly their failure in the last five-year program? On the contrary, the International Red Cross program to give away bed nets was very efficient, for example, in Togo, where 100% of children under five years old were covered.

To stop any ambiguity, can you tell the committee if there are negotiations with the Red Cross, after 18 months, to renew a new subvention after the current $26 million fund is finished?

That's my first question. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Merci, Mr. Patry.

Madam Minister.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I want to thank the member for his question.

As regards the malaria program, CIDA remains firmly resolved to continue its anti-malaria initiatives. In that connection, we contributed $250 million to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria.

Since 2003, CIDA has allocated $35 million to Africa to distribute bed nets, mosquito netting for beds. To date, we've announced nearly $250 million, but we will allocate nearly $300 million to the global fund.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madam Minister.

The second question dealt with UNICEF and Ethiopia, and also cross-referenced the Red Cross.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

The member's question was about the announcement concerning UNICEF.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

It was on Canada's commitment to UNICEF and Ethiopia, despite some problems, and whether or not we will be renegotiating or signing an agreement with the Red Cross.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Yes.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Articles have indeed appeared in the newspapers over concerns regarding UNICEF's delivery of services. We've been told that UNICEF was conducting a serious investigation into the matter. Nevertheless, in March 2006, we paid no less than $12.5 million to Ethiopia.

Sir, you are in fact referring to what appeared in the newspapers and to the concern that caused?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Madam, in your response to the newspaper concerned, which I don't want to name, you say that the bed nets will be distributed in Ethiopia free of charge. However, we know perfectly well that some people in that country are selling the nets, when they should be distributing them free of charge. They're selling them for a dollar a day, knowing perfectly well that Ethiopians earn less than a dollar a day. That's hard for me to understand.

I'd like to be sure that the funds that UNICEF obtains to distribute bed nets in Ethiopia will go to the right place, to ensure free access to the nets for young people and families.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I've been told that that statement was false and that the program in which we took part was making it possible to distribute bed nets free of charge to children under five years of age and to pregnant women.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Patry.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you.

Madam Minister, now I'm going to talk about the Office of the Auditor General.

In its 2005 Status Report, the Office of the Auditor General stated that it had examined the management of CIDA's grants and contributions programs. The percentage of the transfer payments, which are considered as grants, has now reached the 60% level.

Are you concerned by the fact that such a high, and constantly rising, percentage of transfer payments is being made by CIDA in the form of grants rather than contributions? We know perfectly well that CIDA can't have any control over those grants.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I'll start by saying that I had an excellent meeting with the Auditor General a few months ago. We had occasion to discuss this question. I told her about my concerns, but also about what has been implemented to adequately respond to those recommendations. I'm going to ask Mr. Greenhill to give you more details on the subject.

3:55 p.m.

Robert Greenhill President, Canadian International Development Agency

Thank you very much.

How can we work together to cut administrative costs and ensure that aid programs are efficient? We often work together with multilateral organizations, or “baskets” of funds that, as you said, are a structure.

What is important to emphasize is that CIDA is not shirking the obligation to account for the grants it makes. We're involved in steering committees of multilateral organizations and in organizing committees of “baskets” of funds, reviewing the financial statements of organizations audited by third parties, reviewing the project reports and annual reports. We also regularly consult the other donors through Utstein groups and other good practice initiatives, and we take part in evaluating program results.

Let's also point out the major improvements that have been made in recent years in efficiency and results, in both education and health. For example, eight million more Africans have begun going to school in the past four years, which may be attributable to a large degree to these integrated programs.

We're taking all the necessary steps to be duly accountable for these programs.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bernard Patry Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you, Mr. Greenhill.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Greenhill.

Mr. Martin, you have about a minute.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

That much?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

We all get the same amount of time, and your colleague has used up most of it.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

I know. I'm pulling your leg.

Thank you very much for being here, Madam Verner, Mr. Greenhill, Madam Vincent, and Monsieur St-Laurent.

First, could you please table a list of the specific projects you completed in Afghanistan in 2006? What projects were completed and what were they used for?

Second, could you also table information on the moneys that have been given to the government of Mr. Karzai and what those moneys have been used for by his government?

My only other question is, where's our AIDS announcement? It was promised in the summer by the Prime Minister, and we've heard silence. Perhaps you could let us know when that announcement to battle this scourge is going to be made.

Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

Madame Minister.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Josée Verner Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

As for the list of projects in 2006 and the amounts allocated to them, we'll be pleased, starting tomorrow, to give you a full list of what has been announced, as well as related costs. In short, you'll have the answers to all the questions you've raised.

As regards the government's international contribution to HIV-AIDS, I repeat that, last March, we granted $250 million to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, 60 percent of which will be dedicated to the fight against AIDS. At the G8 Summit, the Prime Minister also announced amounts of up to $450 million to reinforce health systems.

CIDA is more actively continuing the implementation of concrete programs to fight AIDS. More than a dozen projects have been approved in recent months, and I will be pleased to provide you with the details on them.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

Ms. St-Hilaire.