Evidence of meeting #21 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was strait.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Travis Morehen  Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence
Laporte  Executive Director, Regional Security and Defence Relations Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Baerg  Executive Director, Greater China Political and Coordination Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Middlesex—London, ON

If the government agrees that Beijing's escalating posture raises the risk of miscalculation, will it commit to a renewed Taiwan strategy that includes deeper coordination with democratic partners and clearer contingency planning for Canadians and Canadian businesses in the region?

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Greater China Political and Coordination Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Ryan Baerg

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure I have the answer to that, to be honest.

I can say that we do co-operate with many like-minded nations on a variety of issues, including Taiwan. We share best practices and we discuss with them our respective approaches to Taiwan. We've been involved in projects such as the Global Cooperation and Training Framework, GCTF, where we support and work with Taiwan.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Middlesex—London, ON

Thank you very much.

China has escalated tensions with large-scale drills around Taiwan.

Is Canada taking a clear position on peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait and condemning these intimidation efforts?

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Regional Security and Defence Relations Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Eric Laporte

Maybe I could take that one.

Obviously, we've seen the large-scale drills by the Chinese air force and navy around Taiwan and other exercises in other parts of the South China Sea. In those instances, we certainly call and condemn those actions.

The point is we are calling for peace, stability and maintenance of the status quo to avoid heightening tensions unnecessarily.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Middlesex—London, ON

Thank you.

When a Canadian warship transits the Taiwan Strait and Beijing reacts with predictable outrage, what specific rules of engagement, de-escalation protocols and force protection measures are in place to keep Canadian sailors safe from reckless harassment by the People's Liberation Army?

MGen Travis Morehen

All Canadian Armed Forces members, even here in Canada, have the right to self-defence. As we execute all operations around the world, we develop the rules of engagement consistent with international law. The force protection measures are standard for any sailing configuration, and we have great confidence in the captains of those ships to be able to de-escalate the situation as quickly as possible.

If called upon, as we all are, we're prepared to defend ourselves, but we hope that will never have to be the case. We're sailing in international waters under international law in a non-provocative manner.

The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen

Thank you very much.

We'll next go to MP Mona Fortier.

You have five minutes.

Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I would like us to explore a bit how we're working with our partners in the region, meaning the other countries that are present.

Mr. Morehen, you touched on this in your opening remarks, but how are we working with them? In this case specifically, how are we working with partners in the region, but also with our allies, such as the United States, which you mentioned, and other allies?

MGen Travis Morehen

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll present it purely in terms of military co-operation, and my colleagues may want to jump in on this.

Predominantly, we conduct multinational maritime co-operation activities. Through these activities, we conduct various elements of training such as communications, officer of the watch, boat transfer exercises, cross-deck, moving cargo from one ship to another via helicopter, basic air defence and basic anti-submarine warfare. We do all this in a manner that's consistent with international law and host nation consent if we're operating within territorial waters.

This gives us the confidence to be able to work with partners in the region if elements were to escalate, but it also gives great training for our young sailors, aviators and soldiers who have joined the Canadian Armed Forces for an incredible experience to see different parts of the world.

CFB Halifax and CFB Esquimalt are in continuous operations all the time, and I imagine that can get quite boring, so these activities allow us to share Canadian values through port visits when we support heads of mission. There is a whole gamut of opportunities we can conduct with the Royal Canadian Navy that satisfy all those diplomatic defence and communication concerns.

Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON

Do you want to add anything from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Regional Security and Defence Relations Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Eric Laporte

Yes, certainly.

Indeed, what MGen Morehen said about the tactical operational side of things are all benefits. As he said towards the end of his comments, engagement with the country becomes strategic, military and diplomatic engagement. Often, the continued presence of the Canadian Armed Forces or the Royal Canadian Navy in the region helps to advance relationships in certain areas. For example, there were advances in the security and defence relationship with Japan following the signing of an equipment and technology transfer agreement, or ETTA. There have also been advances with South Korea, through a security and defence partnership, and with the Philippines, with whom we have a partnership through the Status of Visiting Forces Agreement. These activities yield broader and more strategic outcomes than mere co-operation with the country.

Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON

During your observations, have you seen any best practices from our partners or allies that have inspired you and that we should adopt or explore further? If so, what are they?

MGen Travis Morehen

Mr. Chair, I don't have concrete examples for you. I'm not a naval spokesperson.

What we do find when the crews come back is that they do find the deployments very rewarding professionally and also personally from their experiences. That's not only in seeing other cultures, but also, they have a sense of pride in what they've trained to do and have accomplished and in why they've joined the Canadian Armed Forces. Also, of course, we're always open to learning best practices from other countries.

While I didn't mention it in my initial response, we're working with Japan, the Philippines, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and South Korea. This gives us a wide variety of perspectives in the region. I think that in the typical Canadian way we're able to synthesize these various perspectives to be inclusive of other people's views and that gives us a much better sense of what's happening in the region.

Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON

We're seeing a lot of changes and we're hearing a lot of talk. Looking at what's happening in the world right now, do you have any concerns? Do you look at things from a different perspective, in this case, given that certain countries are taking certain positions?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Regional Security and Defence Relations Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Eric Laporte

There are a lot of things happening in the world these days. I would say it's a more complex and dangerous world.

As far as the Indo‑Pacific region is concerned, it has always been a place where you could observe things in advance, particularly when it comes to the issue of Taiwan and the issue of security in the South China Sea, and that remains the case. We see that the United States is somewhat repositioning its way of seeing things and its approaches. We'll have to see what that means and how it translates in the Indo‑Pacific region itself. That could leave more room for some other countries and allow them to expand. So that remains to be seen.

The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen

Thank you very much.

Next is MP Michael Chong.

You have five minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the answers.

I'd like to talk a bit about the disputed seas just beyond the Taiwan Strait. In particular, I know that the Government of Canada doesn't recognize the PRC's nine-dash line claim over the South China Sea. I note as well that the Government of Canada does recognize the Philippines' sovereignty over rights and jurisdictions in its exclusive economic zone.

Does the Government of Canada consider the Scarborough Shoal part of the Philippines' EEZ?

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Regional Security and Defence Relations Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Eric Laporte

I'm not going to answer specifically on that, because I don't know the answer myself, but I do know that we are opposing what we have called the “militarization” of disputed features. We're seeing naval, coast guard and maritime militia vessels intimidating and threatening ships of other states.

In 2016, there was an UNCLOS arbitral decision tribunal ruling brought forth by the Philippines, which is binding on all the parties, including China. We're calling on all the parties to abide by that.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON

Thank you.

If I recall correctly, I think that 2016 tribunal ruling concluded that there was a 12-mile nautical sea centred on the Scarborough Shoal. Canada recognized and supported that ruling.

The reason I ask this question is that several months ago Minister McGuinty signed a status of visiting forces agreement between Canada and the Philippines. The treaty provides for joint military exercises and operations between Canada's military and the Philippine military. Will these joint exercises and operations include naval ones?

MGen Travis Morehen

We expect the upcoming exercises and co-operative framework with the Philippines to include all elements and all domains of the Canadian Armed Forces.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON

The reason I ask this question is that there's been a lot of kinetic conflict between elements of the Philippine state—naval vessels of the Philippine state—and naval vessels of the PRC state in those disputed waters. Last summer, there were collisions between ships of the PRC and the Philippine coast guards.

If we're going to be participating in joint exercises and operations, what measures are being put in place to ensure there's not a kinetic conflict between a NATO member and the People's Republic of China?

MGen Travis Morehen

I believe it's the process that I described earlier about how we come up with the concept of operations at the maritime co-operation level. We run it through the foreign policy risk assessment. That's the name that we use for the joint consultation process between the Department of National Defence and Global Affairs Canada. That will really drive the measure or level of risk that we intend.

We also have to be very careful that we're not doing this in a provocative manner because we are intending to have exercises and co-operation respecting international law and UNCLOS. The first exercise that will be coming up is Exercise Balikatan later this summer. We're just waiting for the ratification of the status of visiting forces agreement through the Philippine parliament system.

All those considerations are taken into account for where we should go and where we should not go.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON

Thank you. I have no further questions for this round.

The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen

You still have 32 seconds.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON

I'll wait for the next round.