Human Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

The Government of Canada has announced the build Canada strong. We've announced quite a few measures, actually, that are going to be covered in the budget on November 4. I'm sure you are familiar with those announcements.

I look to you. Do you think those announcements that we've made to help skilled trades particularly, and the UTIP, because you said that employers hire people with experience...? Under the UTIP program, we announced more funding. We're getting a great response to the measures that the government has announced.

Would you agree that the government is announcing the right things in the budget?

[Andrew Tarr]

I haven't seen all the releases, but I will agree that the UTIP is important. UTIP is directed to the union training centres, and most people who are in the union training centres have jobs or will have jobs.

That's one thing the unions do: We don't bring people in we can't keep employed. Our goal is 100% employment. When things get slow or technology changes, we train them, so that they're employable.

The UTIP fund goes directly to the taxpayer or working people, so it's a very useful fund, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. I have a lot of questions for them, so I'll be quick about it.

Mr. Vultur, you said that the youth unemployment rate was 14%, but that it could be as high as 17% or even 20% in some cases. You're a rigorous academic and expert, and it's very interesting to see all the work you've done.

Do you see any distinctions between the regions of Quebec and Canada, between age groups, between urban and rural areas, between job sectors for which there is a shortage of young people, and so on? There is an endless number of distinctions. Do you see a difference in the unemployment rates in these categories?

[Mircea Vultur]

Yes, unemployment rates differ from region to region. Some regions are more affected by unemployment. We don't have statistics on different sectors, because unemployment is not divided up by sector. We have the employment rates, though. We see that some employment rates have declined, for example in the accommodation and recreation sectors, but have increased in sectors such as health and social services. We can measure demand based on the employment rate.

In terms of the differences between the various groups, the people who were most affected this year were those who were back in school, meaning those who were enrolled in university, had summer jobs and then went back to university. Their employment rate was almost 20%. Summer jobs have been hit hard by the unemployment rate among Canadian students, and that's due to the many phenomena I mentioned earlier.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

It would be useful to have data divided up by sector, I would imagine.

My next question is about employment insurance, which you talked about. We've touched on this at the committee. Of course, we don't want young people to be unemployed, especially for an extended period of time. In addition, these young people often live precariously. We even raised the idea that it could undermine the educational goals of some young people.

What would be your recommendations in that regard? You didn't get a chance to finish your recommendations earlier, but you will likely forward them to us.

[Mircea Vultur]

We see that long-term unemployment has a very negative effect on young people. Short-term unemployment has a less significant impact. When you're unemployed for two or three weeks, or even two months, it doesn't have a significant impact, because the period of unemployment is transitory.

In June 2025, we also found that almost 22% of job seekers had been looking for work for at least 25 weeks, or more than six months. The year before, it was 17%. Young people are taking longer and longer to find a job. This is a worrisome phenomenon for all unemployed workers, but especially for young people, because, as I explained, it can have a very negative impact on their burgeoning careers. In particular, it causes a great deal of discouragement. Young people who finish their studies, who want to enter the labour market and who can't find a job are greatly affected in the long term in terms of wages, but also in terms of mental health. They become discouraged and lose self-confidence. Then they find themselves in the trap of long-term unemployment. Therefore, we must at all costs prevent these young people from remaining unemployed for more than six months or a year. That is one of my recommendations.

Today, young people are increasingly in debt. In the category of young people aged 18 to 34, 66% are in debt and 35% of them are having trouble repaying their debts. Therefore, we should also facilitate access to employment insurance for young people, adapt it to non-standard, seasonal and temporary jobs, and ensure a better rate of pay. Today, the cost of living is high, and young people are having a hard time coping. According to recent statistics, approximately 40% of young people born in the early 2000s have experienced food insecurity. With this in mind, I recommend easier access to employment insurance for young people.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Since I'm short on time, I'll have to wait for my next turn to ask you my next questions, but I'll tell you the topics right away to give you time to think about them.

First of all, you talked about automated résumé sorting, and that caught my attention.

I would also like to talk about the mismatch between training and the labour market. I see a possible link there with retirements and the positions they may leave unfilled.

Thank you.

[Mircea Vultur]

Thank you, too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Falk, go ahead for six minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this afternoon.

I would like to start with Mr. Tarr, if I may.

I notice with the conversation, the government is leading on to anticipation of what's in the budget and that it is going to do something when it comes to building.

I just want to be on the record noting that it's one thing to announce something, but it's another thing for the rubber to hit the road and for things to happen and get built. We've been in a housing crisis for a while now, and we're still in a housing crisis. We know, and we've heard at this committee, that we need tradespeople in order to build those houses, ironically.

In your opening remarks, you made a comment about the residential economy choosing the lower cost and “what is known as the underground economy”.

What do you mean by an underground economy?

[Andrew Tarr]

That's when people work for cash. They don't pay taxes. They typically don't pay into the system. They don't pay WSIB, health tax or income tax, but then they actually enjoy the benefits of a system that is paid for by taxes. If they get hurt, they go to the hospital. They don't claim a WSIB claim, but they use our hospital system and get fixed.

The underground economy is rampant. In 2019, the OCS did a study. It's on their website. It's the Ontario Construction Secretariat. Don't type in “OCS”, because that's the Ontario Cannabis Store.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Andrew Tarr]

Go to the Ontario Construction Secretariat's website and just type in “underground economy”. In 2019, they did a pretty in-depth study on it.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Has the underground economy increased in recent years?

[Andrew Tarr]

I would say it has. It's increased in a couple of ways with Facebook Marketplace and technology whereby you can do searches. What I've noticed is that some of the temporary foreign workers or new Canadians come from cultures that are all about cash. We're all about cash, everybody is, but they're more so.

I have two buildings where I get work done. If I call up and get a locksmith to come in, they give me, a business, the option of paying cash. Why does a business need to pay cash?

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Would you say that the rising cost of living and everything being more expensive is contributing to that?

[Andrew Tarr]

I would think so. I honestly think that people are just trying to feed their families.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

That's right, and we have heard that 2.2 million Canadians have accessed food banks, so I definitely understand that people are just trying to put food on the table.

I do want to make note, too, that under Prime Minister Harper, the Conservatives had a home renovation tax credit. I know that there was a lot of positive feedback on that to curb the underground economy, because, in order to receive that tax credit, you had to get a receipt; therefore, you had to get services from a Red Seal tradesperson.

Do you have any comments about that?

[Andrew Tarr]

I don't know if that always works, because usually, when a company does business, they can give a receipt, but it's very common that the companies will have people who work for cash.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Okay, so the company is hiring people to work for cash.

[Andrew Tarr]

Yes, and they're not necessarily qualified. On the recent heat pump grant that was given out, to get that heat pump grant, you had to have a legitimate company install the heat pump.

When the companies came to install the heat pumps, it doesn't mean qualified people were installing the heat pumps. The reality is that 60% of all heat pumps in Ontario, when they were being installed, were installed wrong. I even have figures to show that, on the residential side, less than 30% of the people are properly qualified for the work they're doing.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

I'm sorry; can you repeat that number?

[Andrew Tarr]

Less than 30% of the people are properly qualified to do the work they're doing in the residential sector.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

If something is installed inappropriately or by somebody who isn't qualified, does that cause increased costs down the road?