Human Resources Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Tarr.

Mr. Vultur, thank you for joining us and for your remarks.

Since we've started this study, the Conservatives have wanted to talk about everything, except youth unemployment. When you look at how they've voted in the past, you can understand why. Most of my colleagues on the other side voted against Bill C‑79, for example. The purpose of the bill was to give appropriations to the Department of Employment and Social Development, among others. It provided grants and contributions for essential programs, such as Canada summer jobs and skills for success.

Could you talk about those essential federal programs for youth and how they actually help youth?

[Mircea Vultur]

Do you want me to give you details on the programs?

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, please.

[Mircea Vultur]

I don't really know the programs in detail, but I've heard of them. I think they help youth. I'm thinking, for example, of the tax credits for businesses that hire youth. Today, at a time when unemployment rates are high, the government needs to improve its programs for young people. That said, I haven't analyzed the programs to assess how effective they are.

Today's youth are facing some insecurity. As another MP said earlier, we need to promote programs that support the construction and industrial sectors. However, it must be noted that the precarious jobs of previous generations, those that required little skills, are not today's precarious jobs. Before, they were factory and construction jobs. Today, they are jobs in the food industry, home care, logistics and trade.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Joseph.

I want to get direction from the committee at this time. We have concluded the first hour, as per the way we do this. What is the will of the committee? Do you want to continue on? We just have the same two witnesses.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

That would be standard, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

That's why I'm asking for direction from the committee on continuing on into the second hour with the same two witnesses. Is it the will of the committee to continue?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Okay. Then we will move to Mr. Reynolds.

Mr. Reynolds, you have five minutes.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming here today. I appreciate your time.

My question is for Mr. Tarr. I just want to circle back to this underground economy thing. I think it's very interesting.

We can talk about side jobs and a guy who puts a light in for his neighbour, or something like that, but would you say there's a large underground economy? What I'm getting at is this. Are there contractors who are hiring multiple people for cash as full-time employment?

[Andrew Tarr]

In the underground economy, there are contractors who say that they're contractors, but they're actually not contractors by definition, because they're not registered. That's very common.

If you go to Brampton and look it up on Facebook Marketplace, you'll get hundreds of them.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

That's unfortunate. We have an expression for them in Manitoba. We call them “trunk slammers”.

[Andrew Tarr]

Yes, we use that here, too.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you have the same expression in Ontario?

[Andrew Tarr]

We have the same expression.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Is there a path for temporary foreign workers or for permanent residents in Ontario to do an apprenticeship? I know in Manitoba you cannot get into Apprenticeship Manitoba unless you are a permanent resident—a temporary worker cannot. Is there a path for temporary workers in Ontario to get into the apprenticeship program legitimately?

[Andrew Tarr]

I believe that refugees, as long as they are registered refugees and they have paperwork with their SIN numbers, can do an apprenticeship, but everybody else....

I had a situation where a person came from Australia. They were issued a temporary foreign worker permit to work in Ontario for a particular contractor to perform refrigeration work, but the Ontario government requires that you have a licence. Even though he had the paperwork from the federal government, it wasn't legal for him to work in the province of Ontario. He wasn't allowed to take training, because it specifically said on the document that he was not allowed to train.

I do know that for refugees there is something. I'm not too familiar with it. I just found about this two weeks ago, while I was getting a training session on series-900 SIN cards.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

We're learning things new every day.

These contractors are hiring all these people without a legitimate path to a Red Seal or an actual career. It's just cash for hire on a daily basis.

[Andrew Tarr]

Yes.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Kind of drawing a line in the sand between ICI—industrial, commercial and institutional—and residential, do you see this primarily in the residential industry?

[Andrew Tarr]

It's primarily residential and what I would consider to be light commercial. Strip malls—every mall in Burlington, say—won't use non-right-licensed people. It's when you get into small mom-and-pop malls or business units or residential or small restaurants that there's a lot of cash business.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

On that side of things, is it more predominant in residential?

[Andrew Tarr]

Yes.

[Colin Reynolds, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you think in Ontario there is a lack of enforcement? We have lots and lots of regulations in Manitoba. People are required to have Red Seals in various industries—piping trades, HVAC, refrigeration. Is there a lack of enforcement out there?

[Andrew Tarr]

I believe there is, yes.