Evidence of meeting #12 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
I know that in Manitoba we definitely have a lack of enforcement.
Obviously, we need to build more homes in this country. There's a lot of talk about building more homes. Do you think injecting billions of dollars into our housing construction industry, without taking into account that maybe we need some more enforcement to regulate some of this construction, will make this problem worse?
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
It could; it could. I don't know about dumping piles of money into the housing market without looking at other things that are going on in the market. Yes, we need more houses. I personally believe we need to stop speculation in houses. I think if you got rid of speculation in houses, you'd still have a housing crisis, but it wouldn't be as bad.
That's my uneducated opinion.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
If you give him an extra half-hour, he'll take it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
No, no. I just find this line of questioning interesting and fascinating.
Ms. Fancy, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you very much.
It's nice to see you talking shop, being from the trades area. With my line of questioning, I'm going to change it up a bit in terms of the future and looking at regional job markets.
I have two questions for Mr. Vultur first, and then I have a question for you both.
Mr. Vultur, thank you very much for coming today. I'm thinking about what you said about AI and automation and how as Canadians we pride ourselves on our AI development as being one of the best in the world. I'm looking at the future with youth within those job sectors.
How do you think automation, AI and green transitions are shaping the jobs that will be available to young people in, say, the next 10 or 20 years?
Full professor, As an Individual
One of the main issues we have is we don't know the impact AI is having on youth unemployment. There really aren't any studies on that. I've recommended the committee conduct such a study, because it would be helpful to know the impact the advent of AI has had on youth.
We know that the automation of basic tasks has led to a decline in the number of entry jobs available to the youth. One example is internships for both low-skilled youth and qualified university students. The number of articling students, for example, is dwindling, because AI can search through huge databases of case law and statutory instruments, then synthesize and analyze the information. These entry jobs are disappearing. There are fewer interns, but their role is changing. They can run AI tools and verify the output, giving them more time to acquire other skills and learn new responsibilities.
We also noted that young people are proficient at using tools their future employers are still unfamiliar with, which is an advantage for them. This means they can get hired for reverse training, meaning they can teach their employer how to use AI. It's becoming more common in the labour market. AI will generally create new jobs, but the first impact of AI will be a loss of jobs, which will affect young people.
Liberal
Jessica Fancy-Landry Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
That's wonderful. Thank you, Mr. Vultur.
I have a second question.
When you were beginning your own opening statement, you talked about needing a stronger federal-provincial coalition. You've called for a stronger federal-provincial coalition. You also mentioned about better tracking data and targeted investments to address the structural challenges faced by youth through different economies and shaped through our different digital platforms and AI. You were reinforcing that federal action and evidence-driven policy are critical for improving job quality and long-term mobility with Canadian youth.
I was wondering if you could expand on that a little, please.
Full professor, As an Individual
There are two important things the federal government could do for youth.
First, it could provide subsidies or targeted tax credits to support the hiring of young people, such as a tax credit for first jobs. Quebec does it, and the federal government could do the same. It could develop first-job programs for young graduates. It could also grant partial payroll tax exemptions to employers that hire workers younger than 25.
Second, in good economic times, youth do well, so the government could promote the innovation industry to create skilled jobs for young graduates. One example would be supporting technology incubators and start-ups. I talked about the new and growing AI sector. The government could implement an intergenerational mentorship program, where, for example, former executives work with and coach young entrepreneurs. It could also offer seed grants to young start‑up founders in the AI sector.
Those are just a few ideas.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Vultur.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Vultur, I have time to ask you two short questions.
First, I'd like to hear more about the automated sorting of resumes. It puts youth at a disadvantage.
Second, I'd like to know what you think about research funding, especially regarding today's subject, and how that could provide potential solutions.
Full professor, As an Individual
Your first question relates to the automated sorting of resumes. We see more and more businesses doing this. They use AI to automatically sort resumes according to specific criteria, including job experience. This obviously reduces the likelihood of inexperienced youth being hired. I just want to point out the indirect impact AI can have on youth hiring.
If you could please repeat your second question, I would appreciate it.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
You talked about research funding. I'd like to know which research topics you're talking about specifically and what solutions you think such academic research could provide.
Full professor, As an Individual
Society always benefits from investment in academic research.
Is that what you were asking?
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Perhaps I didn't quite understand your recommendations. I thought you were talking about investing in research in this specific area. I was wondering whether any topics, projects or research groups would be especially relevant.
Full professor, As an Individual
All right. I see.
I am recommending that the government fund research programs on the impact AI has on youth. It's an issue that's been discussed extensively, and there's a lot of speculation. However, there is little in the way of Canadian data on the subject. I think it's a good idea to conduct a Canada-wide study on AI and youth employment.
Liberal
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Both witnesses today have zeroed in on a critical issue around training and jobs: Training should be seen as a means to an end. Training is valuable insofar as it prepares people for, and leads them to actually having, a job. One of the problems in this sort of infrastructure is that there's been too much mistaken thinking that sees training as an end in and of itself instead of a means to having a good career—as a means to having a job.
Both of you talked about different kinds of mismatches.
Mr. Tarr, you highlighted how, for unions in particular, you train people you can employ. You have a clear connection between training and employment. That connection, of course, does not exist in many other kinds of programs. You have people coming to you who have received other kinds of training and who have been disappointed that training has not led to a job.
Mr. Vultur, you talked about this phenomenon of people with post-secondary qualifications that they are unable to use in the labour market because of this mismatch between training and employment—people thinking about and treating training as an end in and of itself instead of a means to employment.
That's why one of the key pillars of the Conservative youth jobs plan is fixing training. The goal is to bring training into sharper alignment with the needs of the labour market. One of the things we propose is having relatively greater student financial assistance going towards students working to acquire in-demand skills. We've also proposed—and we proposed it long before the government started talking about it—significant increases in funding to UTIP. We believe that's important, and we've been proposing it for a very long time.
I want to hear from both of you. Maybe Mr. Vultur can go first.
How can we fix training to bring it in alignment with the labour market, in order to ensure people are being trained for jobs that exist and not just for the sake of training?
Full professor, As an Individual
That's a topical issue, considering the alarming figures on the overqualification of university graduates.
It's worth noting that research shows about a third of young people go to university not knowing what they're going to do when they graduate. In other words, they go to university without a specific career objective in mind. Therefore, I think the government could guide young people in their career choices by providing financial support, grants or scholarships for example, to those who choose to study in the most in-demand fields. The financial support has to be significant, however. Quebec had a similar program, but it didn't provide students with much financial support, so the uptake was very low. It's an idea that I think could work.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I have a quick follow-up question for you. Your advice to young people watching would be not to study something just to study it, but to think about the career you want and then pursue a course of study that aligns with that career objective.
You're nodding. Thank you.
If you don't have anything to add, I'll go to Mr. Tarr, because I'm running short of time.
Do you have anything you want to add as a comment on this misalignment in training and how we can fix it?