Evidence of meeting #12 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
Yes. Normally, if a person's not properly trained, they don't understand the system. They don't understand how to install things properly. What ends up happening is that you have shorter equipment life.
Mike Holmes made a living off pointing out poor workmanship.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK
That's right. Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Falk.
Ms. Desrochers, you have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both witnesses for joining us this afternoon for our very important study on an equally important topic.
We continue to broaden and move the goalposts.
I'd like to start with Mr. Tarr.
You talked about training, the importance of UTIP and how it's been helpful. We've just announced an additional $75 million over the next three years to continue that program, especially because we want to make sure that we have the right labour, the right workers, to contribute to the Build Canada Homes program and all the investments we're making in building affordable housing. Would you like to comment on that?
We have other programs extended, such as apprenticeship grants and EI supports. What you said seems to be that youth are getting the training, but they're not able to necessarily gain employment after that, unless they are trained by the unions, I guess.
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
I think there are two different things that are going on. UTIP is money that's directed to the union training facilities and that has been used to upgrade the facilities, buy training material and stuff like that. The unions are basically training their membership, which I would say.... I can speak solely for my union, but we make sure the people are properly registered and qualified.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Do you have any temporary residents who are union members?
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
Yes.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
What would you say is the percentage of all your members?
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
We have 5,300 members, and we currently have about 100 or 101 series-900 SIN numbers in our system.
I know that because we found out.... I honestly don't know what.... If someone has a SIN number, we bring them into the system; we put them in the system. When we started trying to train these people, sending them to ministry school—in Ontario, we are a training provider for a ministry school—we were finding out that we couldn't register them because they had series-900 SIN numbers. That's a temporary worker, and we needed special papers for that.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
I know I'm running out of time here, and I do want to get to Mr. Vultur, but just before I do, I'll just go back to the underground economy. I just want to clarify something. We're not saying.... We know that there are Canadians who are also part of the underground economy. Is that correct?
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
Yes.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay, so, we're not just blaming that on immigration.
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
No, no, I'm not blaming. It's a big problem in the residential industry. If the people who are applying—who have gone to colleges to get pretraining—don't get into the trade, they go and start working for cash, installing furnaces, and that's everybody.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
How do we solve that? The issues seem to be more on the employer side, so how do we solve that?
Business Manager and Financial Secretary, HVAC&R Workers of Ontario Local 787 (United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices)
Well, the underground economy has been around.... You could go out and get people, go to the wholesalers and wait, go to Home Depot and watch all of the trucks that pull up, and see if people who are doing stuff have business numbers. It's everywhere.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Okay. Thank you.
I have one minute. Okay.
Mr. Vultur, I don't have much time left, but I'd like to ask you a question.
You talked about young people's precarious work situation. Do the existing programs help make things less precarious for young workers?
Full professor, As an Individual
There are not a lot of programs for young people. There are internship programs and the Canada summer jobs program, for example. There are also internship programs in the public service. However, these programs are few and far between.
I think in that respect—
Full professor, As an Individual
We need to have more and draw inspiration from certain international models, for example by giving direct subsidies to employers to hire young full-time workers while training them. That's what's missing in Canada. I mean, there are very few jobs.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Ms. Desrochers.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Vultur, I'll ask you another question.
You said that there's a mismatch between labour market needs and youth training, and that youth are often overqualified. You've repeated that 33% of youth are overqualified. Based on what I'm hearing, we should actually say “overeducated”. Since the Quiet Revolution, the proportion of college or university-educated people has increased tremendously. That's the case in Quebec, and it's the same in the rest of the country.
I wonder whether there's a link to be made with the fact that a lot of workers are retiring. I'm reminded of my father and grandfather who worked as labourers in the industrial sector. As you said, we need to fill the void left by people leaving the labour market. You said we need to encourage young people to take an interest in the trades and become electricians, plumbers and so on.
Do you think education is something that needs to be addressed as well? Let me give you an example. I know this falls under provincial jurisdiction, but should there be quotas for certain trades? Do you have solutions to fill positions in the trades, which are unfortunately being ignored?
Full professor, As an Individual
I don't think quotas should be imposed for university programs. I wouldn't go that route. Students should have the freedom to choose what they study. However, they need to know that they might have a hard time finding employment with certain degrees. They often have several degrees with skills no one's looking for. They're just going to school for the sake of going to school. It's popular nowadays to have several degrees. They're encouraged to continue their education, but that education doesn't always match labour market needs.
I think the government should focus on telling youth which trades are most in demand. There's a lack of information in that regard, and that explains why 33% of young university graduates work in a position that requires only a college degree. What's more, 15% of them work in a position that requires only a high school degree. That's a waste of human resources. It should be noted that high rates of graduation or education contribute to a country's growth. However, economic growth wouldn't necessarily be stronger if everyone had a degree. The number of graduates at all education levels needs to be adjusted. I think we need to strongly promote skills training, and that is where the government should invest.