Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[Claudette Deschênes]

We have processed 100,000 applications. At the Sydney office, we determined who complied with departmental instructions and who did not.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

A point of order. I'm sorry to do this again. May I request that during today and the next few sessions, given what we've agreed to at the committee, that we focus our discussion--questions and answers and debate--specifically on family class and investment class, please?

If not, if we open up the whole notion of skilled workers, students...unless we agree to study all of that, it could be a very long discussion. I'm wondering whether we could determine that so it's there for everyone.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Just a moment, please.

Is this on the same point, Monsieur?

Proceed.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

We have officials here before us. In my opinion, committee members are free to ask them any questions they choose. When we write our report, we will determine what is part of our area of study and what is not, but it is not up to a member of another party to determine whether the question my colleague asked is within the scope of the study.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Just give me a moment.

Ms. Chow, we're back on this topic that you raised earlier, and I'm going to repeat what I said; that is, I would suggest that if you want more witnesses on a particular topic that you meet after this meeting with Mr. Bevilacqua and Monsieur St-Cyr and Mr. Dykstra and you can talk about it.

My recollection of how this was set up was that it was of a general nature. The ministry people here are to give a general overview and the witnesses who are coming will be called for specific areas. That was my recollection of how it was.

Quite frankly, I agree with Monsieur St-Cyr.

As you can tell, I'm pretty lenient in questions.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Go for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Members of the committee, as long as they're polite and relatively on topic, can ask anything they like.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Thi Lac, you're back on the air.

The clock is running.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Once the Sydney office has decided which applications will be forwarded to the mission, which will be denied with applicants' money refunded, missions receive the applications. The 100,000 figure represents applications which are being processed in missions, either at the interview stage or at the health and security check stage. There are also 8,000 people whose applications have been processed and who have received visas.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Eight thousand out of 100,000 is an approval rate of 8%. Would it not be more appropriate to say that these applications are being processed rather than they have been processed?

[Claudette Deschênes]

They are being processed.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

All right.

You said that, as of November, you had to suspend processing for nine months because the criteria had yet to be set. Since then, given that the new criteria have been set, have you managed to catch up the backlog caused by the nine-month break? Did the criteria help with processing or are you just as far behind?

[Claudette Deschênes]

We are a little behind. That is why we cannot tell you whether applications received in December will be finalized within six or 12 months. Applications are delayed and processing times are longer. There are approximately 16,000 cases that we have not yet completely gone through, but, in the large majority of cases, it just involves refunding applicants who are not eligible under the instructions.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

At this point, 8% of the applications being processed have been successful.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Eight thousand were finalized.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

All right, but out of 100,000 applications, what is the approximate success rate? Aside from the 8,000 applications that were allowed, how many others were processed but were not successful?

[Claudette Deschênes]

I will give you an approximate percentage from memory. Sixty percent of applications submitted before the instructions were announced did not comply with them. We can check and give you the exact figure at a later date.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Are you saying that 60% of applications are denied?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Yes. Approximately 75% of new applications that are being submitted seem to comply with the criteria. I say “seem to” because, at the moment, the Sydney office asks for minimal information. We do not yet have a computer system in place that allows us to ask for all the documents from the outset. A percentage of applications will be accepted by the Sydney office and sent to the various missions. Once the missions request all the documents, they will see that some people do not meet the criteria.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

On the matter of the processing of applications in the spouses or children category, Bloc Québécois members like to say that, in Canada, we cannot have the same standards from coast to coast because realities are different. That must also be the case in other countries. You say that, in Africa, the process is sometimes longer because some things are processed differently.

Could your department not consider the distinctiveness that exists in Africa to harmonize rules or relax them? I am not saying that the rules should be different, but, in some countries, we could be using a different processing system with respect, for instance, to health and security requirements, than what is used in European countries where these types of standards do not need to be established.

[Claudette Deschênes]

In part, the standards are international; they are the same everywhere. We adjust standards based on risk. Our problem is that, in the regions where it is difficult to establish procedures, we also find that there is no supporting documentation. So, it is far more difficult to relax some criteria.

We are trying to see how sponsors in Canada can help us, especially in the family class. On the other hand, we do not want to place all of the responsibility on sponsors who will end up with the same problems as us, in other words, contacting people, finding documents, and so on. It is no easier either way. We are trying to see what can be done on the private sponsorship of refugees and with the family class. But, in the end, if we deny the application before people have all their documents...

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I understand, Ms. Deschênes. I am sorry, but I must interrupt because I have one final question that I feel is important.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You don't have time for a question, unless it takes two seconds.

Go ahead.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You are facing double the difficulty in those countries. Do you have double the staff to process the applications or do you have the same amount of staff as in the embassies elsewhere else?