Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We're over the five minutes. That's time. We're moving on to the next one. Thank you to both of you.

We have Brendan for five minutes, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for being here and thank you to the officials.

I'm reflecting also on Mr. Battiste's eloquent comments and certainly wholeheartedly support the importance of your being here as an indigenous minister and bringing your experience to the table. I also want to thank you for speaking and answering questions with such candour. I think that says a lot for the work you've done.

On a theme similar to Mr. Schmale's, but from perhaps a somewhat different point of view, I'd say it's notable that you were facing a 15% cut and you and your colleagues I think have successfully advocated for reducing that. I want to note again the success of your advocacy in speaking to the need for reducing the spending reduction to 2% from 15%.

Nevertheless, that is a target. I know, having directly engaged with some of the public service locally in my region in the Yukon, that there is anxiety amongst regional staff about how cuts will affect them and their programs when they feel that in the north they're already really overstretched and overextended.

You've spoken very well already here, so I won't ask you to reiterate your vision for how you'll get there. What more can you say about how you can reassure continuity of service given the incredible demands you have to meet? Also, I know that there are really dedicated public servants on the ground in the north. How will you assure the continuance of that delivery of services and programs to first nations and Inuit communities?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, MP Hanley.

What we are trying to do at ISC is really transform the way we're delivering service. We're trying to modernize. We're trying to introduce the implementation of digital service. We're trying to introduce a one-window service approach where communities come to ISC and they're able to ask all of their questions across a variety of subjects and receive that service in a timely manner instead of going to multiple different areas within the department.

That's really important to me; communities need support in a timely way. We want to be able to respond to them and empower them to participate in the application process and ensure they can define on their terms the intent and the outcomes of a project and define what the future of their nation or their community looks like.

Those targets can be very different. They can be very different for indigenous children, for youth in community and for families simply because of how they have been historically treated.

I am very proud to be here as the first indigenous minister, but I also have to be very frank that this is extremely challenging work to see the level of uncertainty that was provided to them historically. What we are trying to do with this budget, in this period of time when Canada is facing some of the deepest economic impacts because of our relationship with our trading partners, the state of the Canadian economy, the impact of inflation and everything coming out of the pandemic.... Although it was not that long ago, we do continue to see the impacts, especially in areas like mental health and supporting families.

We want to be sure that the way we transform at ISC is going to meet the needs of community, and the role of public servants is a critical one. It is one that supported first nations in the period of time when funding was extremely hard with a decade of underfunding from the previous government in the Conservative era. In trying to transition and grow as funds increased at ISC through investments and trying to work towards goals of reconciliation, it grew. With this shift, we're now also going to see a transition in how public service is going to look in the next step of how we move forward.

Although I may not have had the opportunity to fully provide a thorough response to my colleague, as we are transitioning, we are also going to see a shift in what ISC looks like. That means the service itself, the structure of how it's offered and the status of the number of public servants we have but also, more importantly, working towards the critical goal of what self-determination and self-governance look like. That means co-development. That means collaboration with community and giving them the opportunity to define what indigenous outcomes are to ensure the investments and funds we put forward in trying to support them and meet their needs are going to really be based on an outcome they have determined. That's something I as a minister am pushing to innovate not only for me at Indigenous Services Canada but also for my colleagues so that each of them understands they also have a service to offer as part of their work as ministers. That's every single department.

Every single department has an indigenous thread that runs through it, and the openness to explore and understand what that means is something I have had really positive feedback on. It's a huge transition for the government approach. I think that is historic. I'm very proud of it. I hope that everybody in the House is going to support that process as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next is Sébastien for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, in the budget, it says that “there remains over $3 billion available for First Nations, Inuit, and Métis to advance their housing priorities.” That is obviously in reference to the crucial priority that is indigenous housing. However, your government has confirmed that it's actually $2.8 billion of $4.3 billion that had been announced in 2022. That means there is no new money in the budget for indigenous housing.

Why did you ignore such a fundamental need and not provide more funding?

I'd like to ask you a question about another oversight, a major one, in my opinion. I'm talking about an initiative by and for indigenous people that makes loans available to members of first nations to help them buy their first home. It's a turnkey solution that has taken root in a number of communities, and the commitment behind the approach is clear.

Why did you not secure funding for the Yänonhchia' initiative?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

The funding for the urban, rural and northern indigenous housing strategy is existing funding, but the approach will be new. As indicated in the budget, Indigenous Services Canada was tasked with working with Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada to develop an approach that is truly tailored to the needs of members of indigenous communities in settings outside the community. That's the first thing, and I'm very encouraged. As I was telling my colleague, it's important to make very clear that all departments must consider the indigenous perspective in their work.

In addition, the process established through the new federal agency Build Canada Homes is open to indigenous communities. Under the process, they will be able to identify their own housing needs, and it will be possible to consider other types of housing, not just single-family dwellings.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

According to an Assembly of First Nations bulletin, “Budget 2025 falls short in meeting the urgent and long-term needs identified by First Nations. It lacks new investments in critical areas such as a mental health and addictions treatment, policing, First Nations procurement, and education.” Indigenous languages and culture could also be on that list.

What do you have to say to the Assembly of First Nations?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you for your question, but I'm going to ask my colleague to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Give a short answer, please.

[Michelle Kovacevic]

Why is there no new money for mental health, for example? Is that what you're asking?

If you look at the main estimates, you will see that approximately $800,000 has been earmarked for mental health. It's important to consider previously announced funding to really see whether certain programs and policies have been allocated funding. That already exists.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

As we saw with the Alouettes yesterday, when everyone vies for the ball, sometimes they fumble it and it doesn't get where it needs to go.

Here's hoping the strategy works.

Thank you. Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Eric, you have five minutes, please.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I'd like to start by asking, Minister, if you can confirm how much funding is allocated to Indigenous Services Canada for this fiscal year.

[Michelle Kovacevic]

The main estimates this year were $25.3 billion, and if there are any more announcements to come, including those that are proposed in the budget, those would be added to the main estimates.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you.

Do you have a ballpark for how many full-time staff are in the department?

[Michelle Kovacevic]

I do. There are 8,083.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Okay, thank you very much for those figures. I just wanted to confirm those.

I'll follow up on a similar line of questioning as my colleague, Mr. Schmale.

A number of Auditor General reports, particularly with recommendations brought forward in six audits from 2015 to 2022, have found that despite an 84% increase in spending, the department was unable to make satisfactory progress over half of the time in addressing the recommendations brought forward.

I heard your comments earlier about the need for funding, and I appreciate your sharing that. Given the stark numbers that we see here—missing the mark half of the time despite an 84% increase in funding—I'd like to know, Minister, if you agree that this is problematic and needs to be addressed within the department.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

For the first part of my response, I don't know if I can agree with half of the time. There were some areas in the Auditor General's report that really pointed out significant success. I want to acknowledge that those areas where there was vast improvement were really the areas where there was a lot of co-development with our partners, with stakeholders and with communities.

I think it is a huge win for the government when you work closely with those you serve to ensure that what you're offering as a program has success.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

With respect, I note that the Auditor General pointed out that 53% of the time, the department made unsatisfactory progress in implementing the actions needed to address these resolutions. That's where the figure of half of the time comes from. With respect, again, this is the government missing the mark despite significantly increased funding.

I'd like to know, again, if you agree that is problematic and needs to be fixed and addressed within your department.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I think what was problematic was the state that first nations were in for an extended period of time. Trying to ensure that there's a frame or a timeliness to address that is not something that I could agree with.

When people have been significantly and historically underfunded and harmed by, to be blunt, decisions that have really prevented them from expanding or offering a better service through local leadership, it takes a long period of time to come back from that.

What does that look like? It means that there's going to be a process in place to try to frame reconciliation or try to frame any kind of improvement as something that we should really be critical of government.... Yes, I can say that there's more work to do by the department. I can say that there are objectives that need to be attained. We continue to go on.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that, but of course my time is limited.

Again, Minister, there's a drastic increase in funding. You're speaking about the urgency of addressing a lot of the challenges, and I know that very well.

I come from northwestern Ontario. As of October 14, according to the Government of Canada's own website and the interactive map, there are 38 long-term drinking water advisories in effect, 20 of which are in northwestern Ontario. This is just one example of, again, the government making big promises and allocating a lot of money, but we're not seeing the results. Can you speak to why this hasn't been addressed?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

The remaining advisories come into play for different reasons. Some of them are because there's maintenance on existing infrastructure. Some of them are because of transition and staff. Some of them are because of normal breakdown because of weather or other instances. You really have to look at those 38 and categorize them. There is going to, I think, always consistently be some kind of water advisory, like in any other municipality. Equipment breaks down. Sometimes there's turnover in staff. The fact is that we were able to get to 95% of water advisories lifted with significant and continued funding.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Again, with respect, it was your government that committed to eliminating all of these advisories, Minister, and has failed to do so.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I think that reaching 95% is a huge success for the government, and of course, we continue to work with our partners to address—

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much. That's all the time for that.

Ginette, you have five minutes, please.