Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We recognize that we meet on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, September 24, the committee is proceeding to a briefing on budget 2025.

To adopt the budget for today's briefing on budget 2025 in the amount of $500, we need a little housekeeping here. I would ask for consensus to adopt this budget.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Before we continue, I'm going to ask for unanimous consent to allow Lori Idlout five minutes in the last spot in the first round.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Mr. Lemire, please go ahead.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to make sure of one thing. This applies to both hours of the meeting, meaning both panels of ministers, and not just to the first hour. Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Please say that again, as I couldn't hear that.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I just want to make sure that Ms. Idlout will be given time to speak in both the first and second hours, and not just in the first hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Yes, exactly. Thank you.

Appearing today, we have the Hon. Rebecca Alty, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, and the Hon. Rebecca Chartrand, Minister of Northern and Arctic Affairs.

From the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, we have Valerie Gideon, deputy minister; Georgina Lloyd, assistant deputy minister, northern affairs; and Manon Nadeau-Beaulieu, chief finances, results and delivery officer.

Ministers, you each have five minutes. Please proceed.

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Thank you.

I want to begin by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional, unceded and unsurrendered territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I'm pleased to be here today to talk about the generational investment introduced by our government two weeks ago and to explain why this budget must be passed later today in order to build a strong Canada.

This is an investment budget. We're building homes. We're building infrastructure. We're protecting our communities. We're empowering the people of Canada.

Budget 2025 reflects our commitment to reconciliation, equality and respect. That commitment is seen in the investments we make and in the tools we create to support growth.

It makes generational investments that strengthen our social fabric and support healthier and more resilient communities.

As part of this plan, we recognize that the need for first nations, Inuit, and Métis housing is acute. We are working together with first nations, Inuit, Métis and modern treaty holders to support a self-determined approach to increasing housing and community infrastructure. Budget 2025 confirms $2.8 billion for urban, rural and northern indigenous housing. Alongside my colleague, the Minister of Indigenous Services, we will deliver a cross-government indigenous housing strategy.

To promote economic growth and shared prosperity, we're investing in the major projects office. This office will speed up the implementation of infrastructure projects that create jobs, increase family incomes and generate revenue for governments.

These projects will be guided by reconciliation. Each project must respect indigenous rights, fulfill the crown's duty to consult, honour modern treaties and self‑government agreements and follow the principles of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The projects will be carried out only after extensive consultations and, if necessary, adjustments.

To this end, the indigenous advisory council guides the major projects office. It provides expert advice on policies, operational practices and process improvements in order to fully integrate indigenous perspectives and interests into each project.

Supporting this work, budget 2025 would provide $10.1 million for the federal initiative on consultation to fund co-developed consultation protocols and resource centres to ensure that indigenous rights holders are properly engaged in national projects. Consultation protocols set out how indigenous groups want to be engaged, creating clear, mutually agreed processes that make consultation more efficient and respectful. Developing these protocols also builds relationships and deepens understanding of community perspectives.

Resource centres based within indigenous organizations provide support, research and knowledge to help communities participate meaningfully. This budget would continue supporting existing protocols and resource centres and would establish three new targeted centres to strengthen indigenous participation.

Budget 2025 also proposes changes to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act. These changes would allow the First Nations Finance Authority to lend to special purpose vehicles. Special purpose vehicles are stand-alone companies that manage and finance a single project, keeping risks separate and making it easier to raise capital.

For indigenous communities, special purpose vehicles allow multiple nations to work together to borrow as a group and reduce paperwork and costs. With a small legislative change, the First Nations Finance Authority could lend directly to these special purpose vehicles, giving communities access to lower rates and more opportunities to take equity in major projects. With better access to financing, communities could create jobs, grow local businesses and build long-term prosperity.

Another financial and economic empowerment tool in budget 2025 is the bonding and surety pilot program. Smaller, community-based indigenous contractors are often the backbone of local economies, but they face barriers like bonding requirements that larger firms can navigate more easily. Without access to financial tools or large administrative teams, these smaller businesses are at a disadvantage.

That's why we're also building a bonding and surety pilot with first nations partners, including the First Nations Finance Authority. The bonding and surety pilot fund would act as a guarantor of last resort, helping smaller contractors overcome limits under section 89 of the Indian Act and access bonding without complicated arrangements.

The model would be scalable and renewable. Once a project wrapped up, the security could be used again, ensuring smaller firms would have equal access to opportunities. This pilot would help first nations lead their own infrastructure projects, creating jobs, building skills and strengthening communities.

Honourable members, the time has come. The time has come to build a stronger, fairer and more prosperous Canada for everyone. A Canada where reconciliation is a daily reality, where first nations, Inuit and Métis people are empowered and where all Canadians, indigenous and non‑indigenous alike, can look to the future with hope.

Meegwetch, mahsi cho, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now we have Minister Chartrand for five minutes, please.

[Rebecca Chartrand, Liberal, Minister of Northern and Arctic Affairs]

Thank you.

Hello. Tansi. Aaniin.

I'd like to thank my colleague, Minister Alty, for her opening remarks.

[Witness spoke in Ojibwa and provided the following text:]

Boohoo. Tansi. Aaniin. Wapinoong. Anishinaabe Ikwe. Ojibwe Nidishiniicaz. Ojibwe Pine creek, duck bay, vogar nindoonjii.

Kwe kwe. Ullukkut. Tansi. Boozhoo.

[English]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to first acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people. I am pleased to be before you to discuss the budget, in my capacity as Minister of Northern and Arctic Affairs and the Canadian Northern Economic Agency.

Released just a few short days ago, budget 2025 is clearly good for northerners. The budget reflects a shift in how we approach the north. Canada is an Arctic nation, with the true north strong and free as a central part of Canada’s identity. The world sees that, and budget 2025 affirms this. It is our commitment to a renewed Arctic agenda, one that places northerners and indigenous rights at the centre as partners, from vision to results. This renewed agenda recognizes that the leadership and stewardship of northerners and indigenous peoples drive lasting change.

Many major projects today include indigenous and territorial governments, northern communities, financial institutions and development corporations in designing, financing and leading. Our role is to make certain that we support indigenous communities in their involvement.

We introduced the federal initiative on consultation for the meaningful participation of indigenous rights holders in consultation processes throughout the review cycle of national interest projects.

To advance the new $1-billion Arctic infrastructure fund's support for northern projects, we are providing funding to speed up regulatory processes through consultations with indigenous governments and organizations, and with local northern communities.

This means enhancing the roles of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, and the northern projects management office through the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, to coordinate the Government of Canada’s role and relationship with the regulatory regimes and with indigenous partners in the three territories, while developing critical infrastructure in the north and closing that gap with the rest of Canada.

In addition to infrastructure, building the north means investing in people. Providing access to high-quality education is critical to individual success and to our economic success as a whole. Education that is close to home will support resilience and self-determination. Budget 2025 will build on investments to support indigenous and territorial partners with post-secondary institutions.

Budget 2025 is good for the north. We're investing in the creation of an Inuit Nunangat university, which is long overdue. This will be Canada’s first university in Inuit Nunangat.

Access to health care, food security and affordability remain urgent priorities, so we’re here to listen. We're here to learn, and most importantly, we are here to work together. We want to create change that bolsters a “made in the north” solution.

We will be collaborating on an assessment of health care and infrastructure needs in the north to improve access and to reduce medical travel costs. In partnership with northern and Arctic indigenous peoples, we will work together to identify solutions that strengthen delivery and available services in northern communities.

To meet the high cost of living and affordability challenges faced by northerners, we will co-develop evidence-based food security approaches informed by the external reviews of Nutrition North Canada by the minister’s special representative.

Internationally, Canada’s Arctic ambassador is working alongside circumpolar partners to advance co-operation in Arctic governance. We’re active in Arctic Council working groups and multilateral forums because climate change, energy security and sustainable development are shared and urgent priorities.

We will work with indigenous peoples and northerners to uphold their rights, to advance their priorities and to make certain that they are at the table in decisions that affect their lands, waters and communities.

Our work must continue to reflect both the environmental realities facing the north and the priorities voiced by communities themselves. This budget is a step forward. It reflects a shift toward partnership, place-based policy, and a future where the north and the Arctic play key roles, and where their voices are heard and valued.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

Meegwetch. Marci. Ekosi.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Now we go to the first round. This round is six minutes. First up is MP Schmale please.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for attending here today and answering some pretty important questions regarding the budget.

Maybe I'll start with Minister Alty, if I could.

On average, just an estimate number, how many employees does your department have?

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

We have 1,931 employees right now.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Perfect. When you were separated in 2017 when Indigenous Services was created, how many employees were employed there at that time?

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

That is before my time, however, Deputy, do you have that information?

[Valerie Gideon, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

I don't have the global number at that time of 2017 because it included not just Indigenous and Northern Affairs, but also the first nations and Inuit health branch that was part of ISC. The separation process did take about two years until the final legislation to establish both departments was passed. We can get that number for you.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Okay, no problem.

There was a question a few weeks ago in the House of Commons regarding the theft of over 130 pieces of indigenous art—not “theft”, missing pieces of indigenous art. What has been done to rectify that situation? There were severe gaps and a lack of security and monitoring. Really, your department had no idea it was even gone until the audit happened. What has changed?

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I do think it was probably more dramatic after the art heist in the Louvre.

What was there? We were missing artwork, and that's in the Auditor General's report. Pieces of art were lent back in the 1980s to a variety of offices. Some of them have been found. Some of it was sloppy paperwork and it was actually a duplicate; we actually had the piece.

The department has accepted all of the Auditor General's recommendations, and we have taken additional measures to enhance the record-keeping and inventory management systems. Today the collection is stored in a secure place. It's a restricted facility with 24-hour monitoring, motion detection and environmental controls to preserve these cultural treasures, under the proper humidity and temperature controls. The practice of lending out pieces to offices was discontinued. There have been a number of steps that we've taken to ensure that the artwork is protected.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Going back to my first question on the size of the department brings us to Bill C-10 and the commissioner. In the Auditor General's report and many reports since the one that we just had a few months ago, the auditor points out that departments, and this includes Indigenous Services Canada as well, have gotten bigger. According to the numbers I'm able to find in the departmental plan, not your department...basically doubled in size...the results aren't getting any better. There are still issues coming from your department, including a lack of monitoring and accountability for some programs, and slow response times for emergencies and crises.

We've had groups mention frustration with the progress on the truth and reconciliation calls to action. I need to know that your department is actually focused on that, given that we just seem to be getting more growth and the outcomes are getting worse.

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I have a municipal background. Budget time is that annual opportunity to continue to review current programs and services that the government's delivering and to make sure that those are the services and programs that residents expect us to deliver and that they want their tax dollars to go to. That is the way that I'm approaching our department's budget, as well as reviewing all of our current systems and processes to ask, at each step, is this required? It's that red-tape reduction opportunity. Perhaps we've put something in, in the 1980s, and either technology's changed and we should be using that or there's an opportunity to discontinue doing that because it's been over-architected.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

That's good. I want to continue on BillC-10, and the failures within many departments to live up to the word of the government. You sign a modern treaty and we're still having departments failing. Is there any kind of accountability that's taking place to ensure that there are consequences for the departments that are not living up to their word?

[Rebecca Alty, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

It is a continuous review of the process, so we do have the annual reports that go out on a variety...whether it's the public accounts—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

We get the reports that come out and many times the department fails to meet its own standard that it sets. We're growing here. The department is getting bigger, but nobody's being held accountable here.

When are we going to see some consequences for those who aren't doing their jobs? I'm not pointing any fingers at people or the deputy minister. I'm sure they're doing their best, but there are people who are not living up to their word.

Has anyone been fired, reprimanded or anything? Have they been told they have to come to the office five days a week for not meeting their treaty obligations?