Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Can you guarantee that the money under those line items is going to be the same amount spent this year as in the next five years?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I would be able to say that, in the process of identifying what indigenous-led outcomes are, it would really be up to the community to identify how to cost that out. What does that look like? I don't know. I think you have to do the critical work of going to them, engaging them, and asking them what those figures look like. What does it mean in terms of long-term spending?

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Addictions recovery and safety in communities is a federal jurisdiction for indigenous communities. Why was that not reflected as a priority in the budget?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I think that it's important that we maintain those critical services. I want to be clear in terms of the services that we offer right now that, in a time when multiple departments are facing change in budget lines, we were able to maintain those services. Whatever programs are in place right now, there is going to be continuity for them. I think that's really important.

In addition, I want to be sure it's understood that not only are we trying to maintain the service now, but we're also looking to innovate. We want to be sure that health infrastructure addresses the needs of community. That's why this exercise of looking at indigenous outcomes is going to answer many of those important questions that you have and I have as well.

It's not only about trying to offer what we think is the right service. It's about offering a service that we think is going to be meeting the needs of that community. And for me, that really means that you have to do the engagement at the community level and work with them and determine...because, I'm going to say it, the Western-based model of mental health and addiction support sometimes fails to deliver. I think that we have to be open to innovation. We have to be open to looking at how culture plays into that. What does indigenous language-led service look like?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Jaime for six minutes, please.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start off by acknowledging the historic moment we're part of right now. Many ministers have come before us to talk about Indigenous Services Canada, but you're the first one to actually be indigenous yourself and to have the lived experience of not only growing up in but also working in indigenous communities. I want to congratulate you for that.

It even makes me happy to see that the first questions were given by a first nations person in the Conservative Party, and that I get to move along forward as a first nations person for the Liberals. I just think that's a great moment, and I want to acknowledge that.

I also want to put you on the hot seat a bit. Over the summer, we heard a lot of concerns around Jordan's principle and the funding that was there. We heard about the backlog of cases. Several communities were very concerned about how we were moving forward with Jordan's principle. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how our government is responding to those concerns. I did see more than $1 billion in this budget that was released. Can you talk a little bit about our government's response to indigenous concerns around Jordan's principle?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, MP Battiste. It is a pleasure to be here and to work with my indigenous and non-indigenous colleagues. I'm really appreciative that the Prime Minister has trusted me to take on this mandate. To me, that signals that there needs to be a new approach.

This was something that I also heard very clearly in my engagements this summer. It was challenging. I heard a lot of stories from different groups, from leadership and users of the program itself, about what the impact is with the change in the recent operational bulletin. One of the hardest things to hear this summer was actually the statement made by Jordan River Anderson's father himself, Ernest Anderson, who was really addressing what Jordan's principle looks like now and what it was meant for. I have to acknowledge that, as a minister, the decisions taken were challenging ones, because they were taken without alignment of the input of those people who are using Jordan's principle.

This is critical work that we have to do. It was one of the first files. I think one minute after I became a minister, somebody said, “Can I talk to you about Jordan's principle?” To me, that indicated that it was a priority file. I spent the majority of my summer engaging with leadership through various means, and speaking to users of the program, to identify what we can do to address the state that Jordan's principle is in now and how we can address the approach the program is taking.

That's why, for me, I think it's important that we do the engagement with community, and that we spend time reflecting on what that operational bulletin looks like: What does it mean for users who are facing challenges and decisions in the application of the operational bulletin? How can we respond to the important needs that users of Jordan's principle have in a timely way? I know that there is a backlog in place. I have asked my department and my team to really come up with a strategy to respond to that. I'm looking forward to some of the future announcements that we're going to make very soon on what we're going to do to take those next steps.

You did see $1.9 billion for Jordan's principle in the main estimates. I also want to let the committee know that this is something that we respond to. It has increased exponentially. There is a huge need to fill that provincial-federal gap. It is something that I think we need to have a strategy for in order to ensure that we're consistently able to meet the needs of the applicants for Jordan's principle. We also need to ensure that there's clarity in the process that's being used. I think in this transition that was undertaken, the rollout was really where there was a lot of difficulty for users to understand this: What is going on now? What is applicable? What is no longer applicable?

It's a huge undertaking, but it is something that I take very seriously. It is one of the first initiatives we're going to launch.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Thank you, Minister.

You talked a little bit about the operational bulletin. From some of the things I heard, it caught many people off guard. Because it was so late in the year, communities had already spent some of those dollars.

Why was it important for our government to front-load the investments in Jordan's principle in this year with that $1.9 billion? How can we ensure that the people who work in Jordan's principle and the communities and families they represent have a voice in this process, moving forward?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Ensuring that we're able to respond in a transition is really a critical first step, because when there is lack of clarity or uncertainty in the application of the new rules, some members and users get caught in that gap. Having a clear structured financial process for people to engage in, as well as having further clarity on what is applicable for Jordan's principle is a huge need. I think this is what is going to allow us to be able to identify those next steps.

I'm going to turn to my colleague here, who will be able to answer the second part of your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We need a very brief answer. You have about 20 seconds.

[Michelle Kovacevic, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services]

Sure. I'll be quick.

On your question, sir—why front-load?—the forecast and what was announced in main estimates is based on historical expenditures, and that is actually the need as put forward by kids. We forecast based on the need.

Also, in addition to what the minister said, certainly knowing that the funding is already in the cycle and ready to be delivered introduces an element of certainty. People know it's there and don't have to have the anxiety and the worry and wonder whether the funding will come. It is there, and it is there to serve the needs of children.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Wachiya, Minister Gull‑Masty. Thank you for joining us here at the committee.

The 2025 budget doesn't have a specific section on the first nations. I think that this speaks volumes about the government's vision. For reconciliation, it's important to name things and people. In the 497‑page 2024 budget, the words “first nations” appear 146 times. In the 559‑page 2025 budget, these words appear only 52 times.

What's your take on this? Is this a typical example of Prime Minister Carney stepping back from his commitments to first nations, Métis and Inuit communities?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

First of all, I'd like to say that you have a very good pronunciation of the Cree word “wachiya”.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, meegwetch.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

As far as the budget is concerned, this is a new approach for me. I know that, in recent years, there was a chapter dedicated specifically to reconciliation. Personally and as a minister, I think that including all indigenous issues under a single chapter is like a segregation process. That approach suggests that people can access only the services mentioned in that section of the budget. I think the way the budget was tabled this year shows an openness, in that indigenous people, whether they're Métis, indigenous or Inuit, are taken into consideration in all sections of the budget.

What I also find important about this new approach in the budget is that it shows that a number of ministers are mandated to work together on major projects and a number of new initiatives. I'm encouraged by that. I think someone who's indigenous, Métis or Inuit should be served by all departments, not just by the department of indigenous services and by those of my colleagues. They have to receive services from all departments, even from the department of citizenship and immigration.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I too would like to congratulate you on your French. It's great to hear you speaking in French.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In the last Parliament, the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs passed an amended version of Bill C‑61. A number of people were around the table, and we worked very hard, particularly with various indigenous groups, to get that bill passed in committee. A number of witnesses also came to propose improvements to the bill.

Seven months into your mandate, we're still waiting for a new version of this bill to be tabled. In my opinion, it's very simple: You go to the committee's website, you print the document, you table the bill in the House, and things should go smoothly, since this committee unanimously passed Bill C‑61.

What are you waiting for to pass a bill on drinking water for first nations?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you again for your kind words about my French, because I have to say that it starts to slip a bit after five o'clock.

I know that the committee has done a tremendous amount of work. I appreciate all the time you've taken to be part of this process.

I took a lot of time to reflect, to make commitments and to speak with people to find out how they felt about the amended version of the bill. We're a new government, and the approach is new as well. I think it's important to take the time to clarify the needs and the approach. It's important to find out how people will respond to these new legislative measures. That's an important step. For me, as a new minister, it's important to better understand how the communities will respond to the measures in the bill and what the process will be for implementing them. More importantly, as minister, I have to make sure that the modernization process at Indigenous Services Canada takes into account the capacity to implement those measures.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Meanwhile, many communities still don't have access to clean drinking water. You promised $2.7 billion over three years in the budget.

As you know, one of the communities that doesn't have access to drinking water is Kitcisakik, in your riding. Can we expect an announcement to be made soon for that community?

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

When it comes to clean drinking water, the needs are extensive. I know that 1,535 projects were under way as part of the effort to lift the long-term drinking water advisories. It's a major undertaking. We've been able to lift 149 of those advisories, affecting 95% of communities. Yes, more remain, but we have helped 600 communities, or 480,000 people.

It's important to really take the time to work with the community directly. Kitcisakik, in my riding, has tremendous needs. It's important to take the time to speak with members of the community to—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Forgive me for interrupting, but I have one last question for you.

In 2024, the government highlighted the importance of recognizing indigenous policing as an essential service. It was in the budget, in black and white. In 2025, that idea has disappeared.

Does that mean that the government will not recognize indigenous policing as an essential service?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Give a short answer, please.

[Mandy Gull-Masty, Liberal, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Setting up police forces really falls under the responsibility of my fellow minister Mr. Anandasangaree. I've spoken with him about laying out what the goals are and how the issue can be addressed. There is still work to be done, but I think I'll be able to come back to the committee a bit later, once my fellow minister and I have had a few more conversations, to explain the approach that will be taken.