Yes.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was application.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was application.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
A jury convicts originally for the 25 years. A jury subsequently makes the decision--
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
--as to whether the person is going to be able to apply for early parole.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Well, ultimately, if they get past the first application, there's no question about that. Yes.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Right. I want to jump over to the new multiple murders bill that you have before the House this week. The way I read that, if this bill goes through and someone, by way of judicial discretion, is convicted of double murders and is given consecutive sentences, that person would then have to wait 50 years before applying for early parole. Is that correct?
3:55 p.m.
NDP
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Would you like to combine them? Would we get them more quickly, Mr. Comartin?
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Well, if your Prime Minister didn't prorogue as often as he did, we would have been through this bill a long time ago, wouldn't we, Mr. Minister?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Well, I can tell you, deal with this one quickly and I promise I will make every effort to get that one to you as quickly as possible--
4 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
--and then you prorogued Parliament, and we're back a year later having to go through it all over again.
Mr. Minister, are you aware of what the average life sentence is in most of the western democracies?
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
It's life, in many cases. It depends which country you're talking about. There are 180 or so countries.
4 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
The studies we had coming out of the last round on this showed that the average in the western democracies was 10, 12, or a maximum of 15 years.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
That was the average sentence before they could apply for parole. That's the average in the western world.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Nobody has greater respect than I do for other jurisdictions. You'll get American jurisdictions that have very different approaches to murders. I've had critics who point to a particular state. I say you could look at that other state. They have different experiences. I have great respect for Australia. Usually somebody cites that as an example. I have great respect for the United Kingdom, all of Europe, other countries, but we have the right to make a made-in-Canada solution. We can deal with these pieces of legislation and this law. We can come up with our own solutions. We can have a look at what other countries and other jurisdictions do, but ultimately I think we have the right to make those decisions for ourselves. That's not a comment on Australia or any other one of these wonderful countries around the world.
Again, we have the right to make our own decisions, and we are making them. I disagree sometimes with what certain jurisdictions do, and I may agree with others, but this is a made-in-Canada solution. I think we can all be proud of that.
4 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
I'm not sure you're aware of this, but in the vast majority of those countries, although convicted murderers spend much shorter periods of time in custody, there are also lower murder rates.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
There are some states that execute people. I very much disagree with that, Mr. Comartin. I appreciate that some of these jurisdictions are fairly close to us, but just because we, for the most part, get along with the United States doesn't mean we will adopt what is in various jurisdictions. I disagree with what many of them do. Let's have a made-in-Canada solution. That's what you have here before you.
4 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
But the reality, Mr. Minister, is that unless we bring back the death penalty, the families of the victims of a murderer are always going to be faced with the uncertainty that at some point this person is going to be paroled.
That's really the only solution to your major concern here, to absolve victims of the stress they go through.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
I want to reduce victimization, and you're quite correct that if somebody goes out....
If the other bill gets passed as well and they become multiple murderers, it will be maybe 50 years, and maybe there will be nobody around who is still a victim of this individual. We will definitely reduce victimization, and this will be welcomed by the families and the loved ones of these people who have been murdered.