Evidence of meeting #14 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-9.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
People in the room should keep their voices quiet, preferably, or at a low tone so we can hear the speaker. Thank you.
Conservative
Carol Anstey Conservative Long Range Mountains, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that. All voices and perspectives are important, and this is extremely important legislation.
It has become apparent and obvious that the priorities of Canadians are not being put at the forefront of these discussions today, as we've just seen. Studying Bill C-9 is letting this committee study something misguided and misdirected. It's a divisive bill that is unnecessary at a time when we know Canadians really want legislation that deals with changes to bail legislation.
First and foremost, I'm here today to speak about my concerns as an individual parliamentarian, but also with respect to the immense volume of outreach I have had from constituents on this issue. I have had hundreds of people sign petitions, and it's not just a matter of concern. They are engaged and motivated and want to be active participants in the push-back against this legislation.
One thing that I think is extremely telling is that, in the part of the country I come from, which is Newfoundland and Labrador, they have fundamentally supported and trusted the Liberal government for decades, and they are now deeply concerned about this legislation. I think it's important for the government to reflect on itself and understand that these people in my riding, who are non-partisan and community- and service-oriented, often focusing and helping people in need, are alarmed by this piece of legislation. I think it's an opportunity for the government to really reflect.
I'm not surprised that this is the case, because religious charities play such an important role in rural communities, especially in Newfoundland and Labrador, the province where I live. I could give you several examples. They run food banks, shelters and addictions services. At a moment in our history when Canadians are hungry and hurting, our religious institutions are filling the gap and caring for our people, and right now they are under attack.
The premier himself recently acknowledged essential groups like the Salvation Army and acknowledged December 8 to 14 as Salvation Army week in Newfoundland and Labrador, which, again, recognizes the important role religious charities play in our rural communities. I'm not surprised that these organizations are reaching out to me in the manner they are, because they play such an important role, and we should be doing everything to protect them.
I came into this role as a mom and will leave this role as a mom, which, above everything else, is my priority and something that I reflect on each and every day. I think about it consistently in terms of the kind of country my four children will inherit, but I teach my children, on a regular basis, to have and lean into difficult yet constructive, respectful conversations, whether they're in the classroom, around kitchen tables or wherever they are interacting, and to not be afraid to voice their opinions, but respect everyone and treat them with dignity. Thoughtful, respectful disagreement is not a threat to Canadian society; it is the foundation of it.
What message are we sending to the next generation if we are attacking sacred text that is spoken in good faith? This is extremely concerning to me, and it does not make Canadians safer. It creates a chill. We want to encourage people who have diverse perspectives to believe that it's safe and okay to voice those perspectives in Canadian society.
This is a bad bill, and the amendment and subamendment are required because it's not about protecting rights. It's not about public safety. It's not about community well-being. It's misguided, it's misdirected and it's completely unnecessary. We can clearly see it's dividing us. However, more than us, what we should be concerned about is that it's dividing communities. People are talking about divisiveness in this space all the time, and this is something we should be extremely concerned about. Canadians are begging us to address bail and instead we are moving in this direction.
Just as a final thought, I'll note that it's the eve of Christmas. Christmas is the most celebrated Christian holiday of the year, and this legislation is casting a dark shadow of fear over faith communities right now. This is a time when they should be celebrating their faith, and instead they are reaching out concerned and fighting for this government to preserve their faith.
Mr. Chair, I move, based on my comments and my interventions, that we—
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Mr. Brock, please.
Everybody keep your voices down.
I can control the room, Mr. Brock. It's easier without help, frankly.
Please continue, Ms. Anstey. I didn't hear you.
Conservative
Carol Anstey Conservative Long Range Mountains, NL
I will bring forward a motion right now, Mr. Chair. I move that the committee shift its focus and study Bill C-14, which deals with the legislation that is in the hearts and minds of Canadians.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you.
To clarify for people sitting around the table, Mr. Anstey has been substituting for Mr. Lawton so she is able to bring such a motion. However, having dealt with this motion over and over again, we're not going to consider it. That's my ruling.
We'll move on to Mr. Baber.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
You can't raise a point of order, Mr. Mantle; you're not a regular member of the committee at this point. I'm sorry.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Yes, he does. We made that ruling a few minutes ago. You might not have been in the room.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
No. The ruling has already been made, Mr. Baber. That moment has passed.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
You weren't here, Mr. Genuis. You don't have an opportunity at this point to debate it.
Mr. Baber, you have the floor on the subamendment.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
Excuse me, Mr. Chair, but I'm subbed in for a member, so I believe I have the ability to raise a point of order.
Liberal
Conservative
Conservative
Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON
I'm a member of this committee, and I find more about what's going on with this bill from the media than I do from this room. It appears now that at least twice the Attorney General has U-turned on the Bloc amendment that passed the other day and is the subject of the subamendment.
Yesterday, just before question period, I learned that the Attorney General now believes that he ought to go out and consult with communities and consult with religious leaders with respect to the Bloc subamendment that just passed to repeal the defence of religious expression.
In that spirit, if the Attorney General wants to consult, he should have consulted before the Bloc amendment—before the Liberals adopted it and repealed the religious defence. Why not suspend and allow the Attorney General to perhaps change his mind again? By my account, that would be a third U-turn on this bill.
That is why I'm well within my right to seek unanimous consent. I move that this committee now proceed to the consideration of Bill C-14, the bail and sentencing reform act. May I please have your consent to study bail and sentencing and to allow you guys to reconsider whether you wish to repeal the religious defence?
Conservative
