Evidence of meeting #14 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-9.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Breese  Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Wells  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Ali  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I must say that I am disappointed I have to be here to speak to the need for religious freedom protection, but I'm very thankful to my colleague Mr. Lawton for the amendment he put forward to protect that freedom of religious expression.

There are days in Ottawa when the bills we debate come and go, barely remembered by the time we leave the committee room, and then there are days like today—days when the very soul of our country is at issue. What we're really dealing with right now is not a technical adjustment, a procedural tweak or a footnote in the justice system; what we're debating is whether Canadians should be free to speak from their conscience and whether that freedom can be stripped away because a government of the day finds those beliefs uncomfortable.

Today is one of those moments that will be remembered long after the politics of the day have faded. A future generation will ask us what we did when the freedom to speak one's faith was put at risk. Incredibly, the Liberals and the Bloc have struck a deal to remove key safeguards in the Criminal Code, safeguards that protect Canadians who speak in good faith about their religious beliefs and safeguards that the Supreme Court of Canada has already said are necessary to keep our hate speech laws constitutional—necessary, not optional.

Since the amendment supported by the Liberals and the Bloc passed, we're now in a situation where key safeguards in the Criminal Code have been stripped away, safeguards that protected Canadians' faith. Those protections existed for a simple reason: because people of faith in this country hold deep, sincere beliefs about morality, about human nature and about right and wrong. Some Canadians agree with those beliefs while others disagree, but in a free society, we debate ideas; we don't jail people for them.

With the earlier amendment now adopted, the risk is real that people could be investigated, prosecuted and even face up to two years in prison for simply quoting a verse from the Bible, the Torah, the Quran, the Guru Granth Sahib or the Vedas for the teachings of Buddha—in other words, quoting the very scriptures that shaped their lives.

This is not the Canada our grandparents built. This is not the Canada my family came to from the Netherlands after World War II or the Canada generations of immigrants chose as their home because this country promised something rare in the world: freedom of conscience and freedom from religious violence. That's why Mr. Lawton's amendment is so important. His proposal would add a new subsection 6.1, making this clear: “Nothing in this section is to be interpreted or applied so as to interfere with the freedom of expression or the freedom of religion.”

This amendment doesn't undo all the damage of the previous change, but it does put a clear statutory road sign in front of prosecutors, judges and police that says, “When you apply this section, you must not trample freedom of expression and freedom of religion.” It's a line in the sand that says that on the face of the law itself, these charter rights still matter.

The Bloc and the Liberals have justified their earlier amendment by pointing to the case of the Montreal imam. In 2023, he prayed for the extermination of Jews. What he said was vile, anti-Semitic and hateful, and it was already illegal. There's no religious defence for advocating genocide and there is no religious defence for the public incitement of hatred. The authorities could have charged him—should have charged him—but they failed to enforce the law, and that failure is now being used as an excuse to criminalize ordinary Canadians who simply express their faith sincerely. You don't fix one injustice by creating another.

We're now left to mitigate the damage. Mr. Lawton's amendment is one of the only tools left to this committee to send a clear message that Parliament does not intend this section to be used to interfere with core freedoms.

I want people to picture something for a moment. Imagine a mother standing at a school board meeting, reading a passage from her holy book, trying to explain a belief that her family has lived by for generations. Imagine a priest, a rabbi or an imam preaching a sermon drawn from their ancient texts. Imagine a Sikh leader explaining a teaching that's over 500 years old. Imagine a Hindu teacher quoting the Bhagavad Gita. Imagine a Buddhist sharing the words of a sutra.

In the wake of the amendment that just passed, those Canadians are now looking to see whether Parliament will offer any reassurance—any guardrail at all—that they will not be treated as criminals for speaking from their own scriptures. This is what this amendment does. It doesn't solve every problem, but it tells them this section is not supposed to be used to interfere with their freedom of expression or religion.

What troubles me even more is what was said in this very committee last week. The Liberal chair, Marc Miller, looked at scriptures cherished by billions of people—the Bible, the Torah—and said there is clear hatred in them. He singled out Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Romans, and then he said that prosecutors should be able to press charges when Canadians quote those books. Think about that. A senior Liberal, in charge of shaping our laws, believes quoting scripture should be grounds for criminal prosecution. If you want to understand why we need Mr. Lawton's amendment, it's exactly because those are the kinds of views that will guide how this law is interpreted.

Without some explicit protection, we move toward a country in which the government decides which verses from the Bible are acceptable, the state chooses which teachings of the Quran may be spoken aloud and prosecutors decide which parts of a sermon are safe and which are hate. When the state starts policing scripture, it's no longer protecting citizens; it's controlling them.

We already see this pattern across the country. In Ontario and elsewhere, doctors with religious objections to euthanasia have effectively been told to violate their beliefs or leave medicine. In Quebec, the government has already banned many public employees from wearing religious symbols. Now they're trying to restrict public prayer in parks, revoke accreditation from religious schools and scrub religious symbols from communications. They say it's neutral, but neutrality that bans faith is not neutrality at all; it's state-imposed secularism.

There was an old Dutch statesman and thinker named Abraham Kuyper who wrestled with this exact problem more than a century ago: How does a diverse society protects freedoms when people don't all believe the same things? Kuyper would tell us something very uncomfortable for modern governments: There's no such thing as neutral regulation of speech.

When the state claims neutrality but quietly decides which beliefs are acceptable to express, it's not neutral at all; it's picking a side. Secularism, for all its polite language, is not an umpire. It's a world view like any other, and when the state permits every ideology under the sun—political, cultural, even extreme—but suddenly tightens the rules when speech is rooted in faith, the problem isn't religion; the problem is honesty. A society that allows every belief except religious belief to speak freely is not pluralistic; it's selective, and it's pretending otherwise. True pluralism doesn't protect only comfortable speech or carefully edited convictions. It protects speech that's real, lived and sometimes unpopular, speech that actually costs something to say. That's the whole point of freedom of expression.

That's why we should all be very cautious of vague hate speech laws that are untethered from objective harm, because when freedom depends on saying the right things, it isn't freedom anymore. A government confident in a pluralistic society should not fear religious voices; it should trust Canadians enough to hear them and be strong enough to govern them without silencing them. Here, in this Parliament, instead of resisting the trend to prohibit free speech, the earlier amendment raced to meet it. Mr. Lawton's amendment is at the very least a way for this committee to say, “We've gone too far.” We need to reaffirm in black and white that freedom of expression and religion still matter in this section.

Let me say, with the deepest conviction, that when a government declares that faith must retreat behind closed doors, it shackles the soul of its own people. Imposed secularism is not neutrality; it is the state asserting its own creed, insisting that the wisdom of our past—our ancient writers—must change, allowing a single, arrogant generation, which is a tiny slice of the history of the world, to impose its small ideas on the past, present and future of mankind. We ignore our ancestors' wisdom at our peril.

History teaches us a hard truth. Time and again, we see that oppression comes dressed in the language of progress, safety and uniformity, but beneath that language lies a quiet demand: that the principles of the individual must bow down.

It is the cold hand of power reaching into the consciences and souls of citizens, demanding obedience. Once that line is crossed, the state does not stop. It grows bolder, and a people that once spoke freely begins to whisper instead. When coercion enters the public square dressed as tolerance, we must speak with courage and clarity.

Witness after witness has told this committee that the good-faith religious defence was narrow. It didn't protect extremists. It didn't protect violence. It didn't protect hatred. It simply protected sincere people of faith who speak honestly from their traditions. That fence has now been removed. The least we can do is build another safeguard—an interpretive safeguard that tells courts and prosecutors not to use this section to interfere with fundamental freedoms.

I want my colleagues to understand this. Freedom of religion is not a niche freedom. It's not a private hobby. It's not something you do only in your home or your place of worship. For millions, it's the framework of their life. It's their moral compass. It's their sacred duty. It's the source of courage, forgiveness, charity, perseverance and hope.

This safeguard has existed in law for decades. It's not some Harper-era carve-out. The Liberal-era Parliament under Chrétien chose to expand, not shrink, the ability of people of faith to express good-faith opinions based on their scriptures. Successive governments, including the current Prime Minister's, left that safeguard in place for two decades. No federal government, Liberal or Conservative, moved to repeal it until now.

For the first time, a government is now not just enforcing hate-speech laws in cases of genuine extremism, but also stripping away the explicit protection of good-faith expression rooted in religious texts from the Criminal Code's hate propaganda provision. This is a major shift. If we're going to do something that serious, the very least we can do is adopt Mr. Lawton's amendment to signal that Parliament does not intend this section to be used to trample the freedoms of religion and expression.

For all these reasons, I support Mr. Lawton's amendment. It's not everything we wanted, but it's an important line of defence left to this committee. I urge colleagues, whatever their party, ideology or personal beliefs, to ask themselves a simple question: “Do I want to live in a country where this section can be interpreted in a way that interferes with freedom of expression and freedom of religion, or do I want the law itself to say that it must not be interpreted that way?” If the answer is that they value those freedoms, I would respectfully urge them to vote in favour of Mr. Lawton's amendment.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Ms. Jansen.

Mr. Mantle, it's over to you.

10:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to speak to Mr. Lawton's amendment.

I want to begin by saying I come to this committee this evening, and I think most come to this committee this evening, with a shared goal of combatting hate acts and acts that propagate or normalize hatred. That is a laudable goal. I think that goal is shared by all parliamentarians regardless of political stripe. Unfortunately, the amendment that was passed to Bill C-9, the Bloc and Liberal amendment that Mr. Lawton's amendment rightly seeks to undo, doesn't do that. That's why we need Mr. Lawton's amendment: to bring us back to safety.

I came to Parliament for many reasons: of course to represent my constituents and residents in the riding of York—Durham, but also to defend the liberty of Canadians, of all Canadians, across the country. I'm glad that I did, because I have seen time and time again a pattern of anti-religious and anti-Christian bigotry from this government. They may call themselves new, but they are just like the old anti-Christian bigoted government.

Whether it was a values test to receive summer jobs grants, this amendment to remove an integral part of our hate speech and anti-hate framework or seeking to remove the charitable status of religious organizations, time and again, when given the opportunity, the Liberal government chooses anti-Christian and anti-religious bigotry. I'm glad I'm here to defend the liberty of all Canadians to express their faith and their sincerely held religious beliefs. That's exactly why the protection of the defence in section 319 of the code is needed: to protect and defend Canadians from the types of attacks we have seen from the Liberal government.

It has been described as a defence, and it certainly is listed as that in the code, but I think there's another way to look at this provision. It's an integral part of our entire anti-hate framework. It's not just a defence, because the idea that we circumscribe the fundamental freedom of expression.... I'll remind members that in the charter, it's listed as a fundamental freedom, and we should give effect to that and we don't. To curtail freedoms requires a very careful balance, and the inclusion of this defence is an integral part of that.

The inclusion of it was a powerful signal by Parliament to Canadians and to the courts that the expression of sincerely held religious beliefs, including those based on a religious text, should not be subject to criminal sanction. It is equally a powerful signal when Parliament decides, or as the Liberals and the Bloc members have decided, to remove that protection. That sends a signal to Canadians and to the courts that this protection is no longer afforded to people who express those beliefs.

When Parliament acts through legislation, courts are required to give that effect. That's a basic premise of understanding and interpreting our law. For the Liberals to suggest this doesn't mean anything and freedom of religion is already protected, as the minister did in his letter before this committee sat tonight, is fanciful, wrong, ignorant. Frankly, it's unfortunate that the Minister of Justice would hold such a view.

There have been accusations by the Liberal members of hate against Conservatives. I see it all the time in the House. Now we see the Liberals and the Bloc removing protections from those who express religious beliefs. If accusations of hate can now be prosecuted, I wonder if we are coming vanishingly close to the idea of prosecution for a difference in political belief and religious belief by one party against another.

My Conservative colleagues and I will defend Canadians' freedom to debate, to challenge and to criticize without fear of sanction or censure by Liberal or Bloc members or by anyone else in Canada, and defend their freedom to express their sincerely held religious beliefs, including their sincerely held religious beliefs derived from a religious text. For as long as I have to sit here, Mr. Chair, for as many nights and as many hours as you wish, to hold up your own agenda with this bill, I will be right here defending Canadians' liberties.

Thank you.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Mr. Brock, it's back to you.

10:40 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I think this is my third intervention of the night. I want to share a personal story in this intervention. I think a few colleagues have probably heard it before. I don't know whether my Liberal colleagues have heard it, or my Bloc colleague.

I really enjoyed my time as a Crown prosecutor, but I was seeing things in my small community that, upon reflection, were happening in communities right across the country. I saw first-hand, post-2015, the ever-increasing crime levels.

There was a point in my career when my city of Brantford, the largest city in my riding, with a population of approximately 115,000, hadn't had one homicide on its books in about five years. It was something we were very proud of as a community. However, I saw the ever-increasing tide of organized crime moving from the GTA to southwestern Ontario. Before we knew it, we saw an increase in drugs. We saw an increase in weapons. We saw an increase in human trafficking. We saw an increase in violent stabbings and shootings. Before we knew it, homicides were on the rise.

When I left the Crown's office in 2021, we had 12 homicides on the books. I had carriage of four, as the senior Crown attorney in that office. I came to the conclusion that I was muted as an Ontario public servant in terms of advocating for change. I knew what was wrong. I don't want to get into those issues, because those issues will be properly dealt with whenever we get to the study on Bill C-14.

An hon. member

Is that tomorrow?

10:40 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON

Yes, possibly it's tomorrow.

I saw bad Liberal policies and bad Liberal laws first-hand. I said that if I'm going to be an instrument of change, I'm going to have to do it as a legislator. I couldn't do it as a public servant for the Province of Ontario. I left.

It has been my number one mandate since my election in September 2021 to be that instrument of change. I had been advocating strongly for four-plus years, pushing the government, making recommendations to the government and actually sitting down with the new justice minister, literally within days, post-election, after our return in the spring. I sat down with him for close to an hour and a half. I gave him a laundry list of ideas that he could use to immediately improve community safety across this country. Steal my ideas. Take them. Call them your own. I don't care. As I said earlier and will say again, community safety ought not be a partisan issue.

Never did I think, as I've been singularly focused on community safety, that as a proud Christian, as a proud Catholic, I would have to defend my faith in the people's house in a G7 country. That's what I'm forced to do today.

I'm absolutely proud and honoured to stand shoulder to shoulder with all my colleagues here today, including a collection of veterans. My colleague Melissa Lantsman and I were elected in 2021, but a lot of new members are stepping up, and will continue to step up, to fight for freedom of expression and freedom of religion.

I think if one thing can be said right now to the Liberal bench, it is that we will never give up. We will be relentless. I will sit until Christmas Eve if we have to, if resources are available. I will sit between Christmas and New Year's Eve. I will sit after January 1, 2026. We will continue to fight for Canadians' right to practise and to preach without fear of this Liberal government's intrusion.

I had the honour, since the announcement of this secretive deal being brokered last weekend, to attend a Catholic mass this morning. It was an invitation from my colleague Garnett Genuis. It was held in the Father O'Sullivan chapel in East Block.

It was to commemorate the celebration of Juan Diego. Juan Diego is remembered as the first indigenous saint of the Americas. The appearance of the image of the Virgin of Guadalupe on his cloak in the 1500s astonished the Aztec people and has inspired centuries of scientific study of the time, with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe today honoured in Mexico City.

As I sat there, I was pondering the homily given by the father, the priest. I listened to scripture read by a layperson. I looked around. I saw not only Conservative colleagues but also Liberal colleagues. Instead of being inspired by the word of the Lord, the first thought that came across my mind was this: Did that priest say anything that could be deemed offensive, that could somehow now attract criminal prosecution?

I say that because our Minister of Canadian Identity and Culture, who did a disastrous job with our immigration file, was promoted to the front bench, notwithstanding his vile, extremely offensive comments to any Christian in this country in which he determined that various books in the Bible are, in his words, offensive and worthy of prosecution. I was deeply offended by that.

To echo the words of my colleague Mr. Lawton, we can continue this. We are not going to give up. I think the Liberal bench should know that by now. However, what we can do as a committee is something collaborative and something Canada has been asking for for close to a decade. It's something that I have championed over the last four years.

With that in mind, Mr. Chair, I am resurrecting my motion to prioritize the consideration of Bill C‑14, the bail and sentencing reform act, and ask that we work together to report the bill to the House at the earliest opportunity. I'm seeking unanimous consent at this time.

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

No.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON

I just heard a no from the Liberal member Anthony Housefather.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON

That says everything we need to know—that they do not prioritize and have never prioritized—

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

All right. Thank you, Mr. Brock.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON

—community safety.

Thank you, Mr. Housefather. Thank you so much.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Lawton Conservative Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON

What [Inaudible—Editor] against religious people?

Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC

[Inaudible—Editor] that stands up against the use of the notwithstanding clause.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

All right. That's enough.

Ms. Lantsman, you have the floor.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

I'll take my time on the floor if the Liberal members opposite stop obstructing the committee.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

It's also your colleague to your left. It's happening on both sides, to be fair.

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON

The obstruction on the committee of studying and looking at the Liberal bail system, which, as we have talked about over and over again tonight, is not seen as a priority.... In fact, it's odd to me that Liberals would stand in the House and talk about the obstruction of their own Liberal bail laws while obstructing their own legislation at committee.

We'll start from the beginning. We learned last week about a secret deal between the Liberals and the Bloc to eliminate the obvious safeguards that we've had in this country for a number of years, for a number of decades, regarding the expression of religious freedom. When we come to Parliament, I think if we grew up in the background that many of us grew up in, in communities.... I was raised by my community and, indeed, by my family, who moved to this country so they didn't have to practise religion behind a curtain and light candles under floorboards, which is dangerous but obviously what they would have had to do in the Soviet Union to be able to practise freely.

I have to say that over the better part of the last two and a half years, we've seen, particularly in the community I represent and come from, an explosion of anti-Semitism. We've seen gunshots at schools. We've seen firebombings at businesses and protests on a weekly basis in residential neighbourhoods. This is what this is predicated on trying to solve. The problem is that Bill C-9 doesn't do any of that and wouldn't stop any of that.

It is sad that trying to convince a community coming in at the eleventh hour.... Remember that when Bill C-9 was introduced, it was a day after the government recognized the Palestinian state. That's exactly why Bill C-9 had an announcement when it did, which is shameful in its own right, to try to distract from the absolutely vitriolic relationship that this government has created with the Jewish community and a long-standing democratic ally. That's why Bill C-9 was introduced.

Particularly on this amendment, there is no reason that anybody should come here to fight on behalf of their community, fight the scourge of anti-Semitism in the community, fight what's going on in the streets and fight what's going on in schools, in universities, in every institution, in labour unions, in our university faculty clubs and in police forces themselves if they don't do it on the basis of something they believe in. Taking away the right to believe that is a very big problem in the country.

I don't think anybody would fight the fight that our party, our leader and I have been fighting for the better part of two years if they didn't do it from a place of deep religious belief. This isn't about a state or conflict on the other side of the world. It is rooted in the value of Torah and religious scripture—not necessarily if you're Jewish but if you're Christian, if you're Muslim, if you're Hindu or if you're Sikh. If you're not fighting for the things you believe in, not fighting on the basis of that and not fighting to protect them, then there's no point of doing any of this at all.

That's why I think Mr. Lawton's amendment is important. What I don't understand is how it could be interpreted as anything other than the protection of the freedom to believe what you want to believe, because none of what has been expressed by either the Bloc or the Liberals, who have aligned themselves with the Bloc and who used to stand up against this stuff.... None of what they have said would be prosecuted would have been prosecuted.

This was already against the law. We see it in communities over and over again, on every weekend and after every weekend, and I'm oftentimes the only one to stand up and denounce it, and at great peril. It's because I believe fundamentally that you should be able to practise your religion in this country. You should be able to hear your religion preached. You should be able to teach it in school, because it is a fundamental value in fighting for the things we fight for.

My background is not dissimilar to the background of so many other Canadians. My parents came here from the former Soviet Union. My father was an uncredentialed engineer. He drove a taxi and put my mom through school, and in one generation we went from the front seat of a taxi to the front row of Parliament Hill. That can only happen here.

One of the fundamental reasons they moved here was so they could be who they wanted to be and practise the religion they wanted to practise out in the open. They weren't relegated to a corner. Jews in the Soviet Union were subjugated to punishment or much worse throughout history. They came here for one of those freedoms. They came here to be able to raise their children the way they wanted to, to be able to stand up for what they believed in and to be able to have that protected in law.

To watch the party that once believed in all of those things line up with the Bloc and put all of that in jeopardy, you have to wonder if saying anything at all against hate in this country is ever going to be worth it with members opposite in this committee.

We've said these things. We've defended communities at great peril to our own safety and to the safety of our families, and I think all of that is worth it because it's predicated on the fact that we are protecting the fundamental freedom to believe what we want to believe in this country. I don't have to believe what everybody else believes and nobody has to believe what I believe, but I believe in the right to protect it, because without that, we lose it all.

I think Mr. Lawton's amendment is critical. It is critical to send a message to all Canadians who have faith—and to those, frankly, who don't—and tell the world and the rest of the G7 and the G20, if you will, that this is a country based on the rule of law, democracy and freedom, the values that we used to hold as shared values. I wouldn't want to think that the last two years of advocacy on behalf of any community, whether it's the community that I come from or any other one that I have stood up for and fought for, are in jeopardy because the Liberals want to make a deal with the Bloc.

I can't imagine that anybody who stood up for their community could support their amendment or would support making a deal to eliminate any of the safeguards that go to the critical centre of the way many of us were raised and the way many of us live in our communities and interact with our communities. If the thought you have when going into a place of worship is to wonder whether what the clergy at the front of the room is saying is criminal or not, I think we have a very big problem in this country.

We will sit here day after day and hour after hour. I have spoken to 50 rabbis today, and I will speak to 50 more before tomorrow is over, and they too will express their concern on this. They too will express the same concerns that all clergy in this country will express on this piece of legislation or on this amendment.

We haven't even gotten to how it all started and the rest of Bill C-9, but for all those watching, particularly in the Jewish community, if you think this legislation will protect you, it will not. It will be used against you. The very same people who purport to protect the community will use this legislation against you. It happened with Bill C-63, and they were wrong on that.

You cannot have freedom in this country when you curtail freedom. You cannot have safety and security for a community if you're going to pick and choose which verses out of which books you're going to defend. I will not stop sitting here, not for a single hour of a single day. My life has changed over the last number of years, and it's for standing up for a community that I believe in. There is no chance that being under 24-hour RCMP protection is ever not going to be worth it.

I will continue to say the things out loud that many of my colleagues and that many in government and far too close to government do not have the courage to say. I will never be silenced from saying them, not by this amendment and not by any piece of legislation that we will ever allow to come through this House.

With that, I am happy to have other colleagues who have come here—who have cancelled all of their plans and who I'm sure are happy to cancel all of the rest—do this. For those who can't do this on Christmas Eve, I am happy to fill that role. I can do it on Christmas Day, and I can do it every other day of the week. I'm happy to sit in for my colleagues, who have stood up for me when this government did not.

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to cede my time to the many other Conservative members who are here fighting for your rights.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

11 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Ms. Lantsman.

We have Mr. Genuis again, and then it's Mr. Viersen.

11 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

All right, Chair. I think I'm going to be brief again and go to the bottom of the list, because I know Mr. Viersen is eager to get in on this. I was going to pre-empt his comments by discussing how the investiture crisis was more important for the development of the notion of the separation of church and state than the Reformation was, and I know he would be interested in that. I'll pick up on that later on.

Can you add me to the list again right after you update the committee on how you're planning and when you're planning on ruling on the Minister of Justice's violations of the privileges of this committee by leaking documents that were clearly the property of the committee? Can you provide an update to the committee on when you're going to rule on the justice minister's violation of the privileges of this committee?

After that, I look forward to hearing from Mr. Viersen and then following up once it becomes my turn again.

11 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

I'm going to ask you, Mr. Lawrence, to get a pen and paper and write this down: It's under advisement. Every time Mr. Genuis speaks, you can slide it in front of him for the rest of the evening. Thank you.

Mr. Viersen, we're pleased to have you at the justice committee. I've been a member of this committee for some time, and we've been anxiously waiting for you to appear. In fact, we were trying to get you to come here last year for your private member's bill, which was the last time the Conservatives filibustered this committee. Thank you for joining us tonight.

11 p.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'm not Wade Chang. I did try to take the name tag down.