Evidence of meeting #9 for Justice and Human Rights in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-9.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
What?
Sorry, listen. With all due respect, I think my community has overseen the largest of attacks, deadly attacks, against an identifiable group in the G7 in the past few years.
I've had to attend the burial of my community members because of the hate—
Conservative
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
—that, frankly, the political class has allowed to fester, in part because of a lot of the rhetoric that we see online—
Conservative
Roman Baber Conservative York Centre, ON
Ms. Al-Azem, do you condemn the October 7 attack by Hamas? Do you condemn it?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
Do you condemn Israeli genocide?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
I condemn the death of any innocent life. Do you?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marc Miller
Thank you, Ms. Al-Azem.
Thank you, Mr. Baber.
Now well go to MP Chang.
October 23rd, 2025 / 4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Professor Pardy, as the first openly gay member of this House, I'm very proud of my own identity.
In 2008, when I studied in Australia, somebody shouted at me and told me to go back to Asia when I walked down the street. More recently, in 2022, at Metrotown station, one of the busiest SkyTrain stations in Vancouver, someone shouted at me and said, “What are you looking at, Asia? If you want to 'F-word', go to Davie Street.”
You say it is okay to hate people in this country. Do you agree that what I was told is appropriate?
Professor of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual
No, I think it's very inappropriate, but that's not the question. The question is should it be illegal.
It's definitely inappropriate, but it should not be illegal. If people want to say stupid things and let everyone know that they're stupid people, they should be free to do so.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Canada's charter protects freedom of expression, but it also protects the safety and dignity of every person. Do you believe it's ever acceptable in a democratic country to justify hate to others using the disguise of free speech?
Professor of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual
It's not a disguise.
Earlier, Ms. Dhillon asked, “What are we supposed to do otherwise?” The answer to that is, you're supposed to prosecute violence. Violence is supposed to be criminal. The failures we're experiencing are because violence is not being property prosecuted and punished. Violence is the line. It's not language.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Everyone agrees that hate-motivated violence has no place in Canada. Would you agree that the government has a responsibility to ensure that Canadians can live and worship safely, free from fear?
Professor of Law, Queen's University, As an Individual
Free from violence, yes. If you fear violence because of the threat of violence, then that should be criminal, yes. Assault, which is a threat of violence, is criminal already. It has nothing to do with Bill C-9. We already have provisions in the Criminal Code that prohibit violence and the threat of violence. That is appropriate. We're not talking about that. We are talking about trying to keep people safe from some other bogeyman when violence is absent, and that is the mistake.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Thank you.
My next question is for Ms. Al-Azem.
Canada prides itself on diversity, inclusion and freedom of belief. Would you agree that protecting these values require more than words, that it demands action when hate strikes in our communities?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
I'm sorry. I think that was directed towards me.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
Yes. We have seen a troubling rise in hate-motivated strikes and vandalism targeting mosques and cultural centres. How significant is this legislation for your community?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
Again, this legislation can be potentially very significant. It's really important that we strike the right balance on it and make sure that we are protecting all minorities, all identifiable people and all Canadians in a way that does not unduly restrict our civil liberties.
Liberal
Wade Chang Liberal Burnaby Central, BC
What message does it send when Parliament stands united against hate while upholding freedom of religion and expression?
Director of Legal Affairs, National Council of Canadian Muslims
It certainly sends a very powerful message. Yes, it sends an extremely powerful message.
Liberal
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Professor Alford, I only have two and a half minutes, so I'm going to make this quick. If you don't want to answer a question, say so, and we'll move on.
I would like to ask you the same question I asked Ms. Al Azem about the two religious exemptions in section 319 of the Criminal Code, which allow the promotion of hatred and antisemitism based on a religious text. In your opinion, should these exemptions be removed from the Criminal Code or should they be maintained?