Official Languages Committee on May 21st, 2013

[Raymond Sokalski]

I started in grade 7, just like Laura. So you have two products of short immersion, and Chris is a product of long immersion. To me, the key is the support and extracurricular activities offered in any given immersion program, whether it be short or long. To me, that is the key. It is important to know what professional support comes with a given program.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In terms of professional support, previous witnesses have told us that instructors were lacking the experience or the required skills. They rushed in this field without really having the required skills. In your view, what support can the federal government provide to assist in acquiring those skills?

Since education is subject to provincial legislation, we are walking on thin ice. Given its jurisdiction over the area and in light of section 43 of part VII of the Official Languages Act dealing with the advancement of both languages, what type of funding can the federal government provide to help the provinces with those types of programs? What would you recommend to the government?

Since the federal government’s purse is bigger than that of the provinces, what could it do to help the provinces with education?

[Chris Young]

I was in an immersion program until grade 9. Then I was in the international baccalaureate program (IB), which was offered in English. So I was losing my French.

Instead of going to the college, I want to the University of Winnipeg where I obtained my first degree. I would have liked to do my studies in French, but it wasn’t possible, because the courses were offered in English only. I went outside the province to study history.

In terms of recommendation for the provincial and federal governments, I would recommend implementing more immersion programs at the post-secondary level in universities where it is possible. I know this is possible at the University of Ottawa. I think law students at McGill University also have this opportunity. That is what I would have done. As I said in my speech, it is thanks to the national program offered at Lower Fort Garry that I speak French today.

An anglophone from Winnipeg, who is not familiar with the francophone community and who only studies in English at the University of Winnipeg, will not have an opportunity to speak French. The student could enrol in courses provided by the Alliance Française or other courses like that, but that takes a lot of self-motivation.

As I said, Lower Fort Garry was my door to speaking French again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

Ms. Bateman, go ahead.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for being here with us today. You are extraordinary witnesses and dedicated teachers. You make a huge difference in the lives of your students, which is a great accomplishment, in my view.

I would like to clarify some things. In connection with the issue we are discussing today, it was mentioned that a large part of the memorandum of understanding between Canada and Manitoba has to do with the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine, DSFM, which is one component of our education system.

Mr. Chair, is it possible not to use up my question time, since I am just trying to clarify this?

In my view, it is very important to fully understand that this memorandum of understanding includes the DSFM and the immersion programs in schools. Our witnesses today are from immersion schools only. It is very important to make that distinction in our deliberations. In addition—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Ms. Lecomte, very quickly please. Could you clarify that point?

[Lucie Lecomte, Committee Researcher]

Do you have a specific question about the document, Ms. Bateman?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It is very important for all the members of the committee to fully understand that the memorandum of understanding that you suggested as our framework for today's study, includes things that go beyond the experience of our great witnesses, such as DSFM, for example.

I will—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

What does DSFM mean?

[Raymond Sokalski]

It is the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

It is in the document. It is a good lesson.

I should have read this, but I only received it at noon today. It's very important that we understand it's a part we cannot expect our witnesses to speak to today. They have a wealth of experience on the immersion program. I just wanted to make sure we understood, because I was going through this and thinking that I don't think this is exactly.... Although maybe we'll get some other witnesses who could speak to this.

As I said, my children benefited from your skills as a teacher. I am really lucky.

My question follows on your question, Ms. Sims.

What is it that makes bilingualism important to any of us?

Mr. Young, you talked about your experience with history and the research conducted by your teachers.

Mr. Sokalski, you always incorporate aspects such as immigration in your social science courses. Could you tell my colleagues about your experience, the reality you have discovered and the enrichment that comes from integrating the history of our country into another language?

Thank you.

[Raymond Sokalski]

I teach grade 9 students in Manitoba. They are 14 years old. In three or four days, they will be having parliamentary debates in the classroom, which will be set up like the House of Commons with the government side and the opposition side. They will deal with the classic issues, if you will, but also with current issues.

This year, we will be debating the role of the monarchy, given that a young prince and a not-so-young prince might come to the throne in a few years. With a view to enrichment, we will deal with immigration issues. For instance, we will talk about the number of refugees who should be admitted in the economic class and family class respectively.

Our challenge is to create opportunities for students to speak with confidence about research they have carried out in French. That requires as much creativity as possible. Sometimes, it is a little challenging to find materials that are appropriate for their language level.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Could the other witnesses also comment on this?

[Chris Young]

My approach is very similar.

I try to encourage creativity as much as possible, to make history come alive in my classroom, to show students that history is very dynamic and that there are multiple perspectives. As I said earlier, I incorporate many personal experiences in my classes.

[Raymond Sokalski]

While listening to Chris, I thought about the fact that it is increasingly possible for young people to interview former students who are now much more comfortable speaking French.

For instance, when we look at issues dealing with immigration, each student must find someone who has a personal immigration story. I often asked former students to speak French in interviews with my 14-year-old students. They would tell gripping stories such as running away from Afghanistan or the Congo. When we talk about the Congo, we are talking about francophones, people whose mother tongue is French.

Those experiences are really precious for students, because they are authentic. In addition, it is not the teacher speaking in front of the classroom. We try to avoid that approach as much as possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Madam Sims.

[Dr. Laura Sims]

Could I add something?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Yes, go ahead.

[Dr. Laura Sims]

Again, I hope you guys don't think I'm crazy for adding these things.

I teach at this francophone university. I'm an anglophone by birth, and I'm a firm believer that we all have something to contribute.

I teach at the Université de Saint-Boniface in the faculté d'éducation. I teach all the courses linked to diversity, cultural diversity, and to aboriginal perspectives. I am not aboriginal; if you look at me, you'll see that I'm pretty white-bread. Nonetheless, I believe that as anglophones we all have something to contribute as allies within a bilingual country.

Certainly, like Ray and Chris, I love to bring people into my class, because we need.... For example, in my aboriginal perspectives class, I bring in aboriginals and we do a sweat and all sorts of things, because I think that.... Also, some of my students are from Togo. They don't speak English, so you think of what you have to do to bridge the gap. Because all the courses are done all the time in French, it means we have a translator there who's doing translation for my students. Rather than just looking at things as a challenge, you look at what solutions you can find to do this in French too.

Another thing is—again, hopefully you won't think I'm crazy—sometimes I think about what if people were colours, like such-and-such a personality is a vibrant orange, or red, or maybe beige, and I say, “Ah, imagine...”. One of the things that makes us vibrant as a nation is that I think we're this vibrant palette of different colours, and lively, and I fear, in the monotone of unilingualism, of becoming beige.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Madam Sims.

We'll now go to Monsieur Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the three witnesses for joining us today.

Could you tell me what you think about the Canada-Manitoba agreement and the action plan for official languages in Manitoba, if you happened to take a close look at it?

How could we improve it?

[Dr. Laura Sims]

We have not seen the document.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

That is a bit of a problem because that is what we need to look at.

I greatly admire your life stories, but, as a legislator, I want to be able to assess what I can do. You made two suggestions, but I am not sure whether they are already part of the Manitoban government’s plan. If so, the work would be done twice. We cannot include anything in our report without checking it.

You talked about educational resources. Is there anything in the plan about that? In addition, you will understand that it is difficult for the federal government to create a fund for educational resources. It is somewhat outside our jurisdiction. I can’t think of a single federal official who is familiar with educational resources. Usually, those who are familiar with the area work at the provincial level, not the federal.

Could you please remind me what your second suggestion was?

[Chris Young]

It had to do with increased support for students and teachers to have authentic experiences outside the classroom. We are talking about programs such as the Youth Forum, Katimavik and Explore.

In terms of educational resources, we are wondering whether the federal government could provide funding to the authors who write textbooks for immersion students, for example. A few years ago, one of Raymond’s students, an anglophone from Winnipeg, wrote a history textbook in French. Of course, the perspective is always slightly different.

Perhaps you can talk about it.

[Raymond Sokalski]

It was a former student who did his PhD at Laval University. His name is Matthew Rankin and he is a former Kelvin High School student. He did his PhD in history at that university. He wrote a textbook that is great for us who study Canadian history in French in western Canada. Not only does he focus on the major anglophone and francophone issues in Quebec, but he also puts special emphasis on the fight for the French fact in western Canada.

In terms of educational resources, we fully recognize that this is largely a provincial matter. However, when you go to the website of the Historica-Dominion Institute and you click on a quiz, you can only do it in English. I think it is unfortunate that there wasn’t a bit more funding for the institute to be able to develop quizzes in French.

That is what I am thinking about.