Official Languages Committee on May 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We will resume. We are now in public session.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, April 25, 2022, the committee is undertaking its study on the importance of official languages at Canadian National.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses.

First and foremost, I would like to welcome the Minister of Transport, the Honourable Omar Alghabra.

We also have, from the Department of Transport, Serge Bijimine, assistant deputy minister, policy; Tamara Rudge, director general, surface transportation policy; and Colin Stacey, director general, air policy.

Minister, as you know, you will be given a maximum of five minutes for your remarks, after which we will proceed to a round of questions.

I will signal to you when you have one minute left and when you have 15 seconds left.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to meet with the committee today. This is the first time I have appeared in a committee in person. It is a privilege to be with you.

I'm pleased to be joined today, as the chair has mentioned, by the following representatives from Transport Canada: Serge Bijimine, assistant deputy minister, policy; Tamara Rudge, director general, surface transportation policy; and Colin Stacey, director general, air policy.

Mr. Chair, our official languages are at the heart of our country.

Our official languages are at the heart of our country, and French is at the heart of the Quebec nation.

That's why I'm pleased to be here today to speak about our government's commitment to protecting both official languages in the federally regulated transportation sector.

We believe that all Canadians deserve to be served in the official language of their choice by federally regulated businesses. In addition, we agree that employees of federally regulated private sector companies like CN Rail have a right to work in French.

Quebeckers must be able to work in French in Quebec.

In fact, as a former Crown corporation, CN's services are subject to the Official Languages Act.

For all of these reasons, we agree that the lack of francophone directors on CN Rail's board is unacceptable.

We have spoken with CN representatives and made it clear that we expect them to correct this lapse as soon as possible.

In fact, CN has agreed to address the situation during the next round of board appointments this year and has already begun searching for a francophone, Quebec-based board member.

In addition, we are working on modernizing the Official Languages Act to ensure that it reflects the current situation in Canada and promotes real equality between English and French.

Through Bill C-13, we're proposing changes to several provisions relating to private enterprises under the federal jurisdiction in Quebec and in other regions with a strong francophone presence. These changes would strengthen official language rights by making sure private companies in those regions provide French-language services to consumers, respect the language rights of their employees and promote the use of French in their workplaces.

The passage of Bill C‑13 will enhance the use of French and promote genuine equality between our two official languages.

Above all, these proposed changes would give the Commissioner of Official Languages new enforcement tools, including the ability to impose financial penalties.

The Commissioner of Official Languages will have more powers.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have one minute remaining.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Companies like CN should reflect the values of our society.

It's also why we've introduced changes to modernize and strengthen the Official Languages Act.

That's why we have taken steps to ensure that CN respects the official language rights of its customers and employees.

On a more personal note, I want to say that I was born and grew up outside Canada. I didn't have an opportunity to learn French growing up, but, as an immigrant, I love and respect the way French is part of the Canadian identity.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please conclude your presentation, Minister.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

That's a reminder of our diversity and cultural richness.

As an immigrant, I believe I can continue to play a role in helping new Canadians understand the importance of French and defend the language rights of francophone Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much.

You will have a chance to continue with the different questions that will come out of this committee.

We will now go to the first round of questions. The first vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, Mr. Godin, will be first to speak.

Mr. Godin, you have six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for your efforts in French. It's the same problem for me in English.

The motion the NDP has introduced is in response to recent news that there are no francophones on CN's board of directors. As you know, we've questioned Air Canada's president and CEO here in this committee. Now it's CN's turn. There are probably other federal agencies that unfortunately have no interest in, or pay no attention to, the French language.

I'd like you to respond briefly to the following question, Minister: how can you require federally regulated corporations to appoint a given percentage of francophones to their boards?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Godin, for the question.

Let me just say, thank you for indulging me and giving me a bit more time as I am working through French. I am doing my best to learn French as quickly as possible.

Monsieur Godin, those are important questions to be posed to former Crown corporations that are subjected to the Official Languages Act. It is really important that CN and others, like Air Canada, set leadership examples. They have a responsibility to meet their obligation under the Official Languages Act, but even on things where the act is silent, they have a responsibility to demonstrate leadership. It's unacceptable that the board of directors does not have a francophone representative on it.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I agree with you, Minister. I think the main problem is that the federal government doesn't lead by example. Just consider the fact that a person who speaks only English and an indigenous language was appointed Governor General instead of someone who speaks English and French.

I'd like to know if anyone consulted you, as Minister of Transport, on the drafting of the bill to modernize the Official Languages Act.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes, I was consulted, Mr. Godin. I supported strengthening our Official Languages Act, including the new idea of giving the commissioner new tools to impose fines when a corporation that is expected to meet its obligation fails to do so.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

And you're entirely right, Minister. However, I've read Bill C‑13, and it makes no provision for any tools or means for a minister, prime minister or government to compel the appointment of a specific percentage of francophones to the boards of federally regulated institutions in Canada.

I understand that you rely on people's good faith, but, as we've seen in the past, Air Canada hasn't demonstrated any willingness to include francophones in its senior management over the past 45 years. What obviously happens is that this attitude trickles down through the organization.

These organizations have a lot of problems. Earlier you mentioned leadership. You rely on the good faith of those managers. Isn't that an error on the government's part?

The past is an indication of what the future holds, and we've seen what's been done.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Monsieur Godin, what we are really focused on and interested in are outcomes. We want to make sure that customers receive services in the language of their choice, either English or French, and that employees are protected so they can work in the language of their choice.

I look forward to the committee's study of Bill C-13. I'd like to see it get here as quickly as possible. I'm confident that you are going to study all components of it and offer your own recommendations.

We're really determined to make sure that customers' and employees' right to be served or to work in the language of their choice is protected.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Would you, as the Minister of Transport, concerned for the balance and equality between the two official languages, be comfortable proposing that regulations or an obligation be set forth in the act to require boards to meet a certain francophone representation percentage? Some have suggested 25% and others higher or lower percentages depending on the region. As minister, would you be comfortable if you had the power to compel that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Monsieur Godin, we know that both of these organizations we're talking about, CN and Air Canada, are private companies. Having said that, I'm really interested in protecting the rights of customers and employees in ensuring that they get the language of their choice.

Having said that, I don't want to pre-empt the study of your committee. I know that you're going to study it thoroughly.

I want to take a moment to encourage all members of the House to pass the second reading of Bill C-13 so that it gets to this committee and you are able to conduct a full study on it.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Godin. You kept your speaking time to exactly six minutes.

The next question will come from Mr. Iacono.

Go ahead for six minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks as well to the minister and all his officials.

Minister, I have to say your French has vastly improved since you started taking French courses and visiting Quebec. Congratulations on the tremendous progress in your language learning.

Your remarks and supporting illustrations give us considerable hope that the situation will be corrected.

What's your understanding of CN's obligations as a business subject to the Official Languages Act?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono, for your kind remarks. I still have a long way to go to work on my French, but I'm grateful for your kind support.

CN was commercialized in 1995, just like Air Canada was commercialized in 1988. One condition of that commercialization was that it uphold its obligation under the Official Languages Act. There's a legal obligation on CN to ensure that their customers' and employees' right to be served or work in the language of their choice is protected. CN has that obligation enshrined in law.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Does that also apply to Air Canada?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Air Canada is a Crown corporation unlike CN, which is a private business. So will the same obligations apply?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes. Let me pause here and explain why. Air Canada and CN are both private corporations indeed, but they are former Crown corporations, in which the Canadian public had invested in the past a significant amount of investment. Part of the commercialization deal was to ensure that they maintained that respect of Canada's identity and respect for official languages.

So yes, both organizations have those obligations.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

As minister, do you have a say in the composition of CN's board of directors and the fact that francophones should be represented on it?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes. I believe CN understood that after the announcement of the new board members that occurred. They understood that this should not have happened. They are working very hard on ensuring that there is adequate representation in their next round of appointments.

We shared with CN that, again, the law might be silent on the makeup of the board of directors, but CN has an obligation to Canada, to Canadians, to set a leadership example and ensure that there's adequate representation on the board of directors.