Public Accounts Committee on April 25th, 2007

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

My colleague will take the first half-minute.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to give notice of my intent to table two reports before the committee, one citing Deputy Commissioner George with contempt of Parliament, and the other with perjury. I would just like, as I said, to give notice that I will be proceeding with those.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, I don't know where you're going. An MP can't table a report. It's the committee that tables a report. Where are you coming from with this issue?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I had inquired to find out whether or not it is possible for a member of Parliament, in committee, to table a report. If it needs to be worded as a motion or a request, I'm willing to do that as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You can table a motion or a document, but it's not a report.

This sounds to me as if it's a serious issue. I would prefer that you prepare it in writing, prepare it in both official languages, and bring it before the committee so that—

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I will do so. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

These are serious comments made by Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. I think this matter should be dealt with by the steering committee in private, and Mr. Wrzesnewskyj may be invited to make his presentation, along with anybody else, but let's do these things professionally. The steering committee may want to bring a report to this committee after they have deliberated in private. But I do not want, and I don't think this committee wants, to start debating these kinds of issues in public.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

I agree, Mr. Williams.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

We're not done. Those are conclusions and they may be actions, but it's way too premature. I'm disappointed that somebody would inject that sort of thing at this stage. It's way too premature.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

We're certainly not going to start that debate right now, at this hour, Mr. Christopherson. I think we'll move on.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I do want to make a point so that it's on the record here.

We're here listening to witnesses. We have a number of meetings left. I'm not sure, at the end of the day, what we're going to do, but boy, principles of natural justice say that the people who are sitting here listening to the evidence of the witnesses and stuff should wait until the conclusion of our proceedings before we rush to make motions on things. It just doesn't fit in with a fair process.

That's my point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Ms. Sgro, you have seven minutes.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Loeppky, were you aware of the fact that both Commissioner Barbara George and Rosalie Burton were persons of interest?

[Garry Loeppky]

No.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Did you have anything else to add to Mr. Christopherson's question at the end? It appeared as if you wanted to add something to it. I wanted to make sure that I gave you full opportunity.

[Garry Loeppky]

Thank you.

I was just going to conclude by saying that during my discussions with Inspector Roy and Staff Sergeant Frizzell, we did not discuss his removal, as it has been called in this committee, at all.

With Roy, what I talked about was that the file would be concluding soon, but there was no discussion beyond that.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Okay.

Commissioner Busson, referring to the written order from Superintendent Doug Lang to Staff Sergeant Frizzell, I'll just read the paragraph that says:

You have been previously advised by Inspector Paul Roy of Ottawa Police Services to cease and desist any and all investigative activities relative to the Project Probity investigation. This investigative team has now been dismantled. We have now been made aware that despite the instructions that you have already received, that you continue to conduct further inquiries relative to this investigation for which you have no mandate or authority.

Given the fact that the investigation had to do with members' own pension plans—it's not as if this was a drug investigation or something completely detached from the RCMP—when you first looked at this written order, did it not give you pause for concern about why an officer who has an excellent record would be feeling so very strongly about this issue? Do you not think that Sergeant Frizzell was justified in wanting to continue on?

[Commr Beverley Busson]

I've been trying very hard to remain objective about this, and that's why I've ordered a code of conduct, because there are a number of issues within the order and the circumstances around Mr. Frizzell's termination, removal, or whatever we want to call it, that beg to be looked into further. And I appreciate your focus on that.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Are you or were you a member of the pension committee?

[Commr Beverley Busson]

No.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

At no time?

[Commr Beverley Busson]

No, I was serving in British Columbia at the time and was not.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Are you aware of allegations that minutes of the pension advisory committee were altered or changed to not reflect the substance of a meeting that was dealing with the administration fund?

[Commr Beverley Busson]

Yes, I am, and that has been passed to the inquiry.