Public Accounts Committee on Sept. 25th, 2024

[Lysane Bolduc]

I began working for the procurement branch of PSPC as director general of the real property and commercial acquisition sector on November 14, 2022. I am still with the procurement branch now. On April 1, I became director of the new sector that was created under the procurement branch and dedicated specifically to the transformation of professional services. Prior to that, I was with PSPC, but I was working with real property services as a senior director, at the time, responsible for infrastructure projects.

I began with PSPC in October 2010, I believe. Prior to that, I was with Indigenous Services Canada for about eight years. Prior to that, I was with the private sector. I worked in Canada for a small firm here in Ottawa. I worked in France for five years for a larger company in ultrapure water treatment. Prior to that, I was in Toronto working for an engineering consulting firm.

I'm an engineer. That's my educational background.

Thank you.

[Thomas von Schoenberg]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

I've been with Public Works and Government Services for almost 26 years, all of it in procurement. Most recently I've been working as the senior director of the real property contracting directorate. Prior to that I worked for a few years with the pandemic response, in response to the COVID pandemic, arranging logistical contracts for the delivery of protective equipment to Canada and to Canadians.

Prior to that I worked for many years on property and facility maintenance contracts. These are large contracts to take care of our government buildings, to maintain them and to assist with leasing—essentially fulsome property management contracts including repair and alterations to those buildings. As noted, I have 26 years with PSPC, all of it in procurement.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you very much.

Can each of you explain your current roles at PSPC and what kinds of day-to-day tasks and responsibilities you have?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

As I said, I'm currently the director general of the newly created professional transformative sector for professional services. In my day-to-day role I oversee procurements as a common service provider for other government departments. I also, in my current role, oversee the specific directorate that's responsible for the acquisition for the department—for PSPC per se.

There are other responsibilities that I have as part of this role. For instance, I'm part of the governance bodies that are established to review procurements. When certain triggers on procurements are reached in value—for instance, when these require approval by the Treasury Board—we have governance to oversee them. A number of us directors general in procurement get together and oversee those files, and we make recommendations on the way forward on those files. Those are the kinds of things that I do on a day-to-day basis in my current role at PSPC.

[Thomas von Schoenberg]

Thank you for the question. In my current role I'm the senior director of the real property contracting directorate. This is an operational buying group. We manage, primarily, real property procurements for major projects. What this means is, specifically, architectural and engineering contracting, construction contracting and property maintenance contracting. We do this for the national capital area. It's one of three real property contracting groups within the procurement branch, and there are other similar groups across the country, providing similar services to the regions.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Can you each tell me who you report to at the PSPC? Is it the deputy minister Arianne Reza or ADM Michael Mills?

[Lysane Bolduc]

I report to ADM Dominic Laporte. I'm a director general. Specifically—earlier statements were made—I'm an EX-03 and Ms. Daly is a PG-05. There would be a senior director, an EX-02, between me and then a manager and then Ms. Daly.

To get back to an earlier question, in an instance in which there would be something out of the ordinary on a human resources file, something that I do on a regular basis is to actually meet with my employees, even if they are several levels below me, when something as important as an investigation, for instance, is happening. For example, when I know that somebody is going through something difficult in their personal life, I would make a point of meeting with them and making sure that they understand that they're supported by their organization. That's why I would meet with a person like Ms. Daly on an occasion like an investigation by a different department on something as high profile as ArriveCAN.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have six minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

We've heard many contradictory statements between Ms. Daly's testimony and what you've said here today. So, obviously, we will be asking a lot of questions to get to the bottom of what happened. I'll jump straight in.

I'd like you to repeat the date on which you received a call from Michel Lafleur and, before that, the date on which human resources informed you that he was conducting an investigation.

[Lysane Bolduc]

As I said, I met Michel Lafleur for the first time on December 13, the day before I met with Mr. von Schoenberg and Ms. Daly. I probably have the exact date I was contacted by Human Resources written down somewhere, but I know it was either the same day or the day before.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

So, on December 13, Mr. Lafleur and Human Resources told you that Ms. Daly was part of the investigation. Is that correct?

[Lysane Bolduc]

No. They indicated that Ms. Daly was a witness in the investigation.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay.

[Lysane Bolduc]

They said they needed her testimony. Mr. Lafleur explained to me that their administrative investigation was missing some supporting documentation. I thought that made sense. Indeed, as we know, that is exactly what came out of the audits that were done. They found that some supporting documentation was missing.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay, thank you.

So she was just a witness. She did her interview in January, and I'm going to come back to that. Yet she was put on administrative leave. On what date was that?

[Lysane Bolduc]

As I recall, I'd say she was put on administrative leave on March 12, 2024.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay.

Can you tell us any more about the reasons for this leave? If she was just a witness and not being investigated, why was she put on administrative leave?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Thank you for the question.

When I was contacted in December, Ms. Daly was a witness in a Canada Border Services Agency investigation. On March 12, I learned, just a few minutes after Ms. Daly herself, that she was the subject of an internal investigation by Public Services and Procurement Canada. So these were two different investigations, conducted by two different agencies at different times.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Who informed you of that?

[Lysane Bolduc]

I was informed directly by the unit at Public Services and Procurement Canada that conducts investigations. As I said—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Who was it, exactly? In the first instance, it was Mr. Lafleur, the Canada Border Services Agency investigator. Who was it regarding the other investigation?

[Lysane Bolduc]

I can give you the name, but I don't have it with me right now.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Could you please send it to us?

[Lysane Bolduc]

Yes, no problem.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do you know when Public Services and Procurement Canada launched the internal investigation? Do you have any more information about that investigation?