Evidence of meeting #141 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was daly.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Ms. Daly and I were informed on March 12, 2024. That's all I know about that investigation.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
So you don't know who else was implicated or why Ms. Daly, in particular, was being targeted by the investigation and no longer considered a witness.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
Actually, no, I don't. There is a separation between the units that conduct this type of investigation and people like me whose job it is to manage program activities. So I don't know any more about that investigation.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You say there is a separation. In that case, why did you insist on being in the room when Ms. Daly gave her testimony?
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you very much for the question.
I didn't actually insist, but rather I offered to be in the room. When Ms. Daly suggested that she would prefer to be accompanied by a union representative or her sister, I thought it was a good idea.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm neither of those people, but I was offering my support.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Still, it's a bit unusual. If one of my employees is being investigated, I'm certainly not going to be in the room.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you very much for the question.
Ms. Daly had expressed reluctance to testify and told us that she wasn't doing well on a personal level. What I was really trying to do was offer my support. I remember—
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
So you're saying it wasn't ill-intentioned, but I still find that a bit awkward.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
I was actually really hoping it would be supportive for her to see that her organization was there for her that day. When she told me she didn't want me to be there, that she preferred to have someone else there, I didn't see a problem.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, I was not present at the interview with the Canada Border Services Agency.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Okay.
However, you did meet with Ms. Daly just before she was prepared.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
I met with her on December 14, when I asked her to co‑operate. That's all.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Okay. You asked her to co‑operate.
Did you discuss the possible content of the interview?
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, zero, not at all.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, absolutely not.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
So why would Ms. Daly make that up? It's a pretty big deal to say that you had a conversation about the content and what should or shouldn't be said.
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
I would prefer not to speculate about Ms. Daly's motives, because I don't know what they are. I can only speak for myself. What I do know is that I was genuinely trying to offer her my support, plain and simple.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Still, it's highly unusual for a director general to accompany an employee who occupies a position several levels below her to an interview, when that employee is a witness in a very important investigation. As we know, CBSA was conducting an internal investigation at that time. You're telling us today that Public Services and Procurement Canada was also conducting an internal investigation. That's not to mention the RCMP investigation, which is still ongoing. The RCMP would never allow that to happen.
Considering your extensive experience, which you demonstrated earlier in answering questions, how is it that you thought this was a good idea?
Director General, Professional Services Transformative Solutions Sector (PSTSS), Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you very much for the question.
Once again, the employee had expressed discomfort at the idea of taking part in the investigation. All I was trying to do was be supportive.
I'd like to come back to the fact that some people find my presence at such an investigation unusual. I would suggest to you that it really isn't. I'm there to support my employees when they're going through unusual circumstances. I don't think an investigation like this is something that happens every day for procurement employees. Personally, I'm there for my employees, including Ms. Daly, even when I'm on sick leave.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
Up next is Mr. Desjarlais.
You have the floor for six minutes, please.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
As a matter of establishing some important facts related to Ms. Daly's testimony, and listening very carefully to your opening remarks, I find it necessary to ask a few basic questions to better understand both the timeline and your direct responsibilities and relationship with Ms. Daly, if you don't mind.
First, from January 2020 to March 2023, what were your direct responsibilities?