Status of Women Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Dick Harris, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

But specifically, it refers to blue-collar occupations. If these include, say, red seal trade jobs—carpenters, plumbers, electricians—and if there were a female and a male with the same ticket working in the same province, and maybe even in the same town, is there a reason why their...? I ask because these wages, as I understand them, are set under union agreements primarily. Surely there wouldn't be a difference in the same plumber's job between a man and a woman if they both had the same trade tickets. Am I correct in assuming that?

[Martin Green]

Yes. I wouldn't necessarily refer to unionized jobs, because I don't think all blue-collar jobs equate to blue-collar jobs, but I should probably dig down a little deeper on that. I know the 84¢ was across the economy, and there was a study that demonstrated that in the blue-collar occupations, and I should probably be able to be a little more precise for you, the gap was, I think, 72¢ to 74¢. But I will get more precision around that for you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Sorry, we're at six minutes now on that round. Thank you.

Mr. Green, can you make sure that we all get a copy of that, that the clerk gets it?

[Martin Green]

Yes. I'll do it through the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Before you leave, I would like to ask a couple of questions. It won't take long. I'm going to take about one minute for my questions.

Some questions had been asked earlier. Gender-based analysis, as you know, was brought in, in 1996, in cabinet. Every department is supposed to do disaggregated data and analyze all policies, legislation, and programs to ensure the gender aspect is analyzed. When questions were asked by some of the members, I noted that the department had not done disaggregated data on many of them and had not had a gender analysis done. That's the first question.

Second, the Employment Equity Act speaks to four groups: aboriginal people, disabled persons, women, and visible minorities. Obviously that should be guiding everything that is done if we're going to fulfill those requirements that were brought forward sometime in 1994, I think. Therefore, why is that not being assessed today?

Those are my questions.

[Christina Caron]

I can speak to gender-based analysis.

I can certainly say that's mainstream within HRSDC, meaning there is a gender-based analysis support unit that provides support throughout the department, but the actual responsibility for conducting gender-based analysis rests with the individual units.

In some cases, however, there are data problems in terms of actually having the gender data, as my colleague mentioned previously. In some instances, the data are there; in others, they're not.

I can certainly say there's an across-the-board attempt to gather those data where possible and to work with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Will someone answer the employment equity question? I think gender-disaggregated data or sex-disaggregated data is essential to do GBA, so that should be done initially.

Does Mr. Green want to answer that?

[Martin Green]

Actually, no. I'm going to get back to you on that, because originally I thought labour had been invited to this, and I'm not comfortable giving you a precise answer. But we will give you one through the clerk, if that's acceptable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank both Statistics Canada and HRSDC for coming and answering the multitude of questions you got. We look forward to your sending us some of the data.

We have a motion to deal with, so I'd like us to move as speedily as possible to that.

Thank you very much for coming.

Madame Demers, will you please bring back your motion, now that everyone has been given the information?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

With pleasure, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me.

Ms. Hoeppner.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you.

As a point of clarification before we begin the amendment, just for my own explanation, many times when we have witnesses, you as the chair have a question and you provide a different perspective. According to the rules, are you basically allotted the same amount of time? How does it work with the chair asking questions? I wonder whether it might be more appropriate for you to ask your question during the round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

No, because I want everyone to get their round. If there is time after the round, I will ask a question. If I notice that there isn't time after the round, I won't.

I can always find out the answer to my question by asking the clerk to get it for me later, but I just prefer that everyone finishes their round before I do it. I don't want to take a place in the lineup and stop it from happening.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Would you like me to read the motion again?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I can read the changed motion, if you like:

That the Committee call on the government to follow-up on the reports of both Amnesty International and the United Nations regarding the hundreds of young Aboriginal women who have disappeared or been killed over the past 30 years in Canada and that the Committee report this motion to the House as soon as possible.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We were asked to provide the two reports, the UN report and the Amnesty International report, so that our colleagues could determine the relevance of the motion. One of the reports was written in 2008, over a year ago, that is; however, no measures have been implemented. Amnesty International continues to hold symposiums and meetings throughout Canada with First Nations women. One such meeting was held just yesterday.

We heard extremely touching testimony from people whose cousins, sisters and mothers have disappeared. The time for talking, reading and listening is over; it is now time for action. We must absolutely ensure that something is done for these women. They deserve it. I do not want to use my Liberal friends' slogan, that these women deserve better. What they truly deserve, I feel, is that we do everything possible to ensure that justice is done for those who have disappeared, or have been killed, raped or unfairly incarcerated, and for all those who remain so that they do not have to suffer in the same way. We must act now, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I open this up to debate, remembering that we just have about 25 minutes to come to a conclusion.

Mrs. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I really appreciate this, because it's a lot in my province that this has been happening. It absolutely is a concern to the communities throughout our region.

There's one thing I wasn't aware of until...and I'm glad you brought it to the surface, that we are scheduled to report to the United Nations.

I'm wondering if I could do a proposed amendment. It's a little different, but perhaps you could consider it.

The proposed amendment, in light of this information that we have received, is that:

Whereas the government is already scheduled to report to the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women on the issue of missing and murdered aboriginal women, that the government ensure that the report shall also be submitted to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, and that the NGOs such as Amnesty International have access to the said report.

I understand that we are intending, in December, to report to the United Nations, so....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You're offering an amendment.

Madame Demers, would you like us to consider that?

Would you like to write it out, Cathy?

Thank you.

Do you therefore ask for this amendment to the motion to go after the main motion? So after “as soon as possible”, you would start with, “whereas”?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

No, in place of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Oh. So you're bringing in a new amendment.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It's not; it's a....