Transport Committee on Jan. 26th, 2023

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Are you saying that private operators were not responsive enough?

[Michael Brankley]

I would suggest that there was difficulty in some cases for them to react, due to the magnitude of the impacts they were feeling across their network.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Landry, in your letter, dated January 10, you stated: “we will be reviewing our performance over the four-day period with the help of outside experts.”

When will this review be completed?

Which outside experts are you consulting, and what are their qualifications?

Will the results of the review be made public?

[Martin R. Landry]

Thank you for the question.

We've started the work and hope to be done as quickly as possible. There are actually many components to this review. An obvious component is the level of communication. We also want to review everything surrounding customer service on board our trains in case they are immobilized, as we experienced over the holidays.

There will also be a component on operations management, and as you mentioned earlier, it will include the importance of communicating with infrastructure owners.

For some components related to communication, among our partners in this review, we have the Roland Berger company, which operates internationally and has a great deal of expertise with railways. We also have the company Hill+Knowlton Strategies.

We will be very pleased to send the conclusions of the review to the committee in a timely manner.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Chair, can we ask the clerk to make sure that we receive the results of this review?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Of course.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I still have enough time to ask one last question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 40 seconds left.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You talked about lessons learned about management, communication and interactions with CN.

Did you learn any other significant lessons from these two events?

[Martin R. Landry]

There's the importance of thoroughly understanding the human aspect of it, which affects not only our clients, but also our staff. We have to keep in mind that our employees who were on board were also victims of significant stress. We offered them support after these events.

Of course, priority was granted to passengers, but we must also understand the impact on our employees and take good care of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Landry and Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, happy new year. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Toporowski, Mr. Landry and Mr. Brankley for being here with us today.

I know the circumstances are not pleasant for you. Perhaps you would have preferred not to be here today, but I think it is necessary. When crises occur, it is often the right moment to take steps and make sure the problems don't happen again.

Earlier, you mentioned that you increased the quantities of food and water on your trains in winter, which I found interesting. We did, however, hear from many people who complained about the lack of food and water on the trains.

Everyone knows that Via Rail's trains are often late, because priority is granted to freight trains. I imagine that it's common or, at the very least, somewhat routine to increase quantities of food and water.

How do you explain that you still ran short of food and water, in spite of the winter season protocol in place and the fact that delays are common?

This happens often with Via Rail, isn't that true?

[Rita Toporowski]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

First, regarding the passengers who were aboard the trains,

I offer my apologies for the extent of the delay and the discomfort that they experienced during that delay.

With respect to your question on why there wasn't enough and that we should be experienced enough, as I mentioned earlier, the extent of the delay was such that conditions degraded over time. It wasn't a two-hour, three-hour or four-hour delay. It was a 13-hour immobilization on train 55, although the overall delay was 18 hours by the time they got to the destination. We have water and emergency snacks, as I mentioned, on board. In addition, based on winter readiness and also for holiday planning, we have provisions for extra supplies put on at intermediate stations.

However, train 55 was in a situation where it wasn't accessible to any station, so we couldn't access the supplies. In addition to that, although we tried—a couple of our managers who were local actually tried to drive—we couldn't get to the site. We couldn't go to a station to bring the supplies to the train.

In addition to that, a third type of contingency we have in place is that, if we run out of food and it's a lengthy delay, we actually call local restaurants and have food delivered to the station in order to accommodate. We were able to do that for two trains. We were not able to do that for any of the others. Train 55 was a unique situation. Given the protracted period of time, finally around five o'clock in the morning we started to run out of supplies.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Earlier, you told us that you communicated regularly with passengers and, in some cases, perhaps that level of communication was insufficient.

I would like to understand how you communicated with passengers. Did you use email or text messages? Did attendants go see them in their compartments?

How was that done, exactly?

[Rita Toporowski]

Thank you for the question.

How we communicate with our passengers and how we're expected to communicate with them on board is through on-board announcements. They should be happening at a regular frequency of every 15 minutes. In addition to that, our operations control centre sends out emails to say there's a delay to the passengers who have offered up their emails. That also offers information to passengers who are not on board the train but are catching the train at a later station.

I don't believe we fully fulfilled our expectations and lived up to our standard with respect to that. Part of our issue was gaining specific information related to the delay, which continued to change. We were reliant on CN to provide us information on how quickly we could get the tree off the train, because train 55 was the bottleneck. If we couldn't liberate that, the other trains would also be delayed.

What we could have done better was ensure that we had visibility. That's part of our protocol as well, to make sure we have visibility in the cars. Our employees walk through the cars and reassure the passengers. However, once again, we didn't give enough concrete information that reassured the passengers, most specifically on train 55.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

You mentioned the reasons why your trains circulate on tracks you do not own, especially in the case of train 55.

How are the tracks cleared? At some point, did someone understand that a tree had fallen on them? I presume that Via Rail is not the one who removes trees that fall onto the tracks, because CN owns them.

To what extent can you exert a certain authority over railway operations?

In the event of an extreme emergency, can you choose to intervene if people's lives are at stake?

[Michael Brankley]

Thank you for the question, MP Barsalou-Duval.

There was communication through the night. In the specific case of train 55 and the tree that we struck, which disabled the train at that point, there were multiple plans in place to remove the tree. However, as the situation evolved with the weather, those plans continued to change. We had contingency plans in place on three occasions to remove the tree, and each time something occurred—or I should say CN had contingency plans in place. As the owner of the infrastructure, it's their accountability and responsibility to clear the infrastructure. We cannot intrude on their infrastructure.

Contingency plans were in place. The situation continued to evolve, so sometimes the communications we gave to our passengers were unfortunately misleading, based on the information we had received.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

If I understand correctly, there is no case in which you would intervene on the railway, even if the lives of your passengers were in danger.

I think this is a matter of judgment. Even if Via Rail isn't responsible, if action is needed, there can be no hesitation. People's lives take precedence.

Don't you agree?

[Michael Brankley]

We would not be able to intervene on the track. In the case at hand, we could not reach the site to intervene. Emergency services later in the morning intervened and with some difficulty reached the site. Unfortunately, it was in a location that was very difficult to access, which is part of the reason we kept the passengers on the train, with heat, hydro and available washrooms, rather than putting them outside in the elements, which were very unforgiving that night.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brankley and Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My first comment is for you, Mr. Chair.

I want to highlight that I find it rather disappointing and contemptuous for both CN and the Railway Association of Canada to refuse to testify before this parliamentary committee. I think that must be noted.

I want to thank the witnesses who came to talk to us about the unfortunate events that occurred over the holidays.

Mr. Landry, what are Via Rail's plans to ensure the well-being and security of passengers when unlikely events occur? They still happen from time to time, such as a snowstorm or a tree falling over.

How do you explain that passengers were prisoners in their train cars for hours, dozens of hours, without receiving appropriate information?

[Martin R. Landry]

Thank you for the question.

Even if we can explain the chain of events that led to the situation in which passengers found themselves, meaning aboard trains stranded in difficult conditions, one of them for 13 hours, it's still unacceptable.

I agree with your analysis. It's one of the reasons why we must absolutely learn lessons from these events to adjust our protocols in the future. Even if we hope to never experience another situation like that, we must make sure that we have protocols in place to safeguard our passengers' well-being if similar events were to happen again.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I want to keep talking about this subject, because I am one of your clients.

In fact, I am a regular on the trips between Montreal and Ottawa, and I am a big fan of the train in general as a means of transportation. However, trains often have to let freight trains go by because they have priority.

Aren't you a little tired of the fact that private companies own the railways and passengers take second place to freight?

[Martin R. Landry]

Thank you for the question, which is very relevant.

Several years ago, this situation led us propose separate tracks, which would divide the railway network, basically. It was therefore a matter of setting up a network for freight trains and another dedicated entirely to passengers. We now call this project the high-frequency train.

At the outset, the high-frequency train would ensure this separation and allow us to manage our own trains, our schedules and, even more importantly, our punctuality. That’s one of our challenges.

In passing, I’m grateful for your loyalty as a traveller. I think you have probably, and unfortunately, experienced our lack of punctuality several times. This often happens due to circumstances beyond VIA Rail’s control. It’s unfortunate because, in my opinion, the bottom line is that passengers in Canada are entitled to better service.

Proposing separate tracks, or a high-frequency train project, would offer this level of service to our passenger clientele.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

VIA Rail owns only 3% of railways in Canada, specifically a small line between Chatham and Windsor.

In your opinion, based on your data, is transportation more reliable when VIA Rail owns the tracks?