Evidence of meeting #18 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drivers.
A video is available from Parliament.
President, J&R Hall Transport Inc.
Wages are probably the highest percentage of our costs. The second is fuel. We have about a 30% uptick in accessorial costs with our wages. If we can eliminate them and join the Driver Inc. field, and then if we can eliminate the effort we put into repairs and maintenance in our equipment, we can lower prices, but we won't be doing anybody any favours.
There will be no future for family businesses in trucking.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Clarke, ON
Would you also agree with Ms. Horlings that there's a need out there for national information? To me, the lack of national information and the lack of enforcement are some of the things that are driving a race to the bottom. Would you agree with that as well?
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.
Finally, for this round of questioning, we'll turn the floor over to Mr. Kelloway, who's joining us online.
Mr. Kelloway, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Hello to the witnesses. It's really important testimony today. That goes without saying.
Just over my right shoulder—I don't know if you can see—there's a miner's hat and a miner's lantern. My dad was in charge of mine rescue for the Cape Breton mines for years. I used to pal around with him quite a lot when I was a young man. The amount of effort that went into the training, the follow-up training and the auditing in terms of mine rescue.... For those who don't know, for the men who would go down for a crisis or recovery, or to assist someone in some way, there was rigorous training—it wasn't a one-off—and it was consistently followed up with auditing.
A couple of things come to mind, and MP Lawrence touched upon them. So far in the testimony, from a variety of sources, we've heard about a lack of training, follow-up training and enforcement, as well as a lack of accountability because of the lack of enforcement and training.
I want to start with Mr. Hall and then go to Mr. Ludwig and Ms. Horlings for a second. Looking at going forward on recommendations, I want to make sure that we get the right terminology from you in terms of the recommendations. I'm hearing that we need more investment in enforcement, training and accountability; more audits; and more inspections. They're not the sole cure, but they are part of the process in trying to make things better.
I'm also hearing—and not just in this testimony—about a national database. I want to ask you this question. I'm hearing about more federal involvement in the management of training and the follow-up of training, because it is a joint enterprise. The province does certain things and we do certain things. Maybe we could start there, Mr. Hall, because I want to see the next generation of Halls on the road. Mr. Ludwig, I don't want to see you go out of business. Ms. Horlings, I want to see you keep doing what you're doing.
Mr. Hall, going to you, we could start with training, enforcement and recommendations, and on the national database and more federal involvement in what is traditionally provincial territory.
President, J&R Hall Transport Inc.
Federal involvement is mandatory. Going to training, our drivers travel in different jurisdictions. If we have graduated licensing, somebody can drive within Saskatchewan, between Regina and Saskatoon, maybe with less experience than a guy who's going west out of Calgary at midnight with a loaded set of B-trains full of fuel.
The training needs to be graduated for drivers. There needs to be accountability from the safety and compliance points of view. It needs to be set up federally, but we also need all the provinces to buy into it. Some provinces get a little lax, and some are a little more interested, depending on where you're going. You have to push them all, but change is mandatory. Change has to happen, or businesses like ours will not be here, and roads are just going to get worse.
Operations Manager, Ludwig Transport Limited
As far as training and stuff go, I agree with Jeff.
There are two really simple solutions that this body of people can probably manage in a few hours, if not a few weeks. One is T4As for everyone from the shipper on down. Let's track the money. Everybody's watched a crime show, and that's the overwhelming modus operandi: Follow the money. Following the money takes you everywhere you need to go.
We also need to stop providing facility insurance to commercial, for-profit entities. All we're doing is insuring bad people. My tax dollars are going to be paid when those big judgments come into play. If the best minds in risk analysis won't insure these people, why in the Lord's name would the government? The best risk assessors don't work for the government; they work for private industry. They won't touch these people, so why do you?
Liberal
Mike Kelloway Liberal Sydney—Glace Bay, NS
MP Lawrence mentioned something, and I'm just interested in your take—everyone's, actually. We'll go next to Ms. Horlings.
Driver Inc. is obviously a focus of this study. It's an aspect of it and a huge driver, but are the issues even deeper than Driver Inc.? I just want to confirm this. When we're trying to establish what the priorities and the problems are, we're obviously focused on Driver Inc., but the things I heard today with respect to the situation of the truck stops, the roadways and the lack of scales actually play a fundamental role in safety.
It's a problem, I'll grant you, from your perspective, but there seem to be a lot of deeper issues here, right?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
We only have time for you, Ms. Horlings, so I'll turn the floor over to you for 20 seconds, please.
Owner, 6S Trinity Transport Ltd.
There are many deep issues within the trucking industry that need to be addressed, including what Mr. Ludwig said in terms of insurance companies. Wherever there's a financial transaction that takes place within the industry, it needs to be reviewed. It's as simple as that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Ms. Horlings.
Thank you very much, Mr. Kelloway.
On behalf of the entire committee, I want to thank our three witnesses for being here today and sharing their experiences as owners and operators of trucking companies across the country. It's very helpful for our study and very helpful for our members.
We're going to suspend for a couple of minutes, colleagues, as we transition to the next round of witnesses.
I want to wish our witnesses for today who are leaving Ottawa a safe voyage home.
This meeting is suspended.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
I call the meeting back to order.
Colleagues, I would now like to welcome the witnesses.
We welcome two representatives from the Association des professionnels du dépannage du Québec. We have Mr. Réjean Breton, president and CEO.
We also have Mr. Mike Burstall, vice-president.
From Carmen Transportation Solutions Ltd., we have Vince Tarantini, president.
Thanks to all of you for appearing before us today.
We begin with our opening remarks.
I now give the floor to Mr. Breton for five minutes.
Réjean Breton Chief Executive Officer, Association des professionnels du dépannage du Québec
Thank you very much, committee members, for having us today.
The Association des professionnels du dépannage du Québec represents 385 companies related to the roadside assistance industry throughout all of Quebec. These companies make emergency calls 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, among others for police forces, including the Sûreté du Québec under a service agreement, and for peace officers from Contrôle routier Québec.
We also participate in several round tables, including with the Ministère des Transports et de la Mobilité durable and the Société de l'assurance automobile du Québec.
We would like to raise your awareness today about the emergence of the Driver Inc. phenomenon and its repercussions.
We will not reiterate all the other elements that have already been submitted to this committee to date and carefully detailed by other associations related to the trucking industry in Quebec, including the Association du camionnage du Québec, represented here today, as well as other trucking associations in Canada.
The roadside assistance industry faces the following challenges.
There are many tractor‑trailers associated with the Driver Inc. model on public roads. When they’re in trouble after being in a collision, getting stuck or breaking down, the police, in accordance with a requirement of the agreement, require towing companies to intervene.
In addition, in the event of a mechanical problem—which we see on a daily basis—a peace officer from Contrôle routier Québec can seize a heavy vehicle and require that it be stored in an impound lot. However, when there’s a failure to pay or a vehicle is abandoned and not claimed by that type of driver, the tow yard attendants are faced with trucks that take up storage space, not to mention environmental management under the Environment Quality Act.
Aside from a few heavy vehicles related to the Driver Inc. model that may happen to be insured and for which we sometimes receive financial compensation, most stored heavy vehicles are not claimed. If we sometimes dare to accept payment of an invoice by credit card, it is cancelled a few hours later by the driver associated with the Driver Inc. model, who claims to have been a victim of fraud.
Some towing companies are now being forced to illegitimately assume non‑payment fees for services rendered at the request of peace officers. For information purposes, the amount is $3.8 million for the last two years.
Robust solutions must be sought through a collaborative and integrated approach, and it must be based on consultation among the various stakeholders.
Here is what we recommend.
Given our obligation to intervene at the request of the authorities to clear the road network, the Association des professionnels du dépannage du Québec and the entire road industry in Canada are seeking, among the various measures to be implemented, a payment guarantee mechanism for towing companies.
We also believe that shippers who financially benefit from the Driver Inc. phenomenon must be part of the administrative and operational responsibility chain because, by turning a blind eye, they’re complicit in this national scam.
The administrators of laws and regulations must obtain and perceive the leadership of all elected officials, regardless of their political allegiance. We must legislate not only with regard to the Quebec Highway Safety Code and that of each province, but also with regard to the Criminal Code and the penal system.
We would also like to see an insurance mechanism to check whether or not heavy vehicles are insured.
With all due respect, the towing industry trusts the House of Commons and this committee to acknowledge this national scourge, which will greatly harm the national economy if nothing is done.
I respectfully submit this to you.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Breton.
Next, we'll go to Mr. Tarantini.
Mr. Tarantini, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.
Vince Tarantini President, Carmen Transportation Solutions Ltd.
Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear.
I am an Ontario-based carrier, and my company has operated in this industry for over 40 years, with a strong focus on safety and compliance. I'm here because what is happening in the trucking industry is no longer just a business problem. It has become a public safety issue and a fair competition issue.
The crisis has outgrown provincial tools alone and now requires increased federal collaboration. I will highlight several key issues that I am concerned about.
The first is driver licensing and training. From an operational standpoint, we see this during driver evaluations. Drivers arrive with valid commercial licences and several years in the industry, yet their skill level is often far below what it should be. We are not talking about new drivers. We are talking about drivers with years of experience who still struggle with basic tasks. Whether this results from fraud, weak oversight or poor training quality, the outcome is the same: People are entering the industry with credentials that do not match their actual competency. In private discussions with drivers, it is common to hear that licences can be obtained through informal networks instead of through proper training and testing. This points to a broken system of training and licensing.
The second is driver misclassification. Misclassification has not disappeared. It has adapted. It is evolving. My recruiting department continues to report that many drivers are still actively seeking arrangements that avoid normal employment obligations. Some carriers continue to structure work in ways that disguise true employment relationships. Enforcement pressure has changed the form but not the behaviour. ESDC must adapt its enforcement.
The third is insurance loopholes. Facility insurance was created decades ago as a last-resort mechanism, not as a standing operating model for trucking fleets. Today, some carriers use it strategically to avoid normal underwriting standards. This allows unsafe or non-compliant carriers to remain in business at artificially low costs. While insurance regulation is primarily provincial, the abuse of facility insurance through misrepresentation and under-reporting should raise federal concerns related to fraud, labour compliance, highway safety and cross-border trade.
The fourth is weak business-level enforcement. Enforcement remains heavily focused on roadside checks while business-level non-compliance continues largely undetected. Federal systems dealing with taxation, employment and business registration are not well aligned with transportation oversight. This includes things ranging from illegal truck yards to abuse of DriveON safety certification processes, business models that appear compliant on paper but not in practice and frequent changes in corporate identity to avoid regulatory scrutiny. These are not separate problems. They are connected. They point to one conclusion: lack of agency coordination and oversight.
In closing, this committee has an opportunity to restore order to an industry that is essential to Canada's economy. We are not asking for protection from competition. We're asking for fair competition, for enforcement of existing laws and for collaboration in an area that has outgrown provincial tools alone.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Tarantini.
We'll jump right into our line of questioning.
For that, I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Albas.
Mr. Albas, you have the floor for six minutes, please.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It is important for me to mention that today’s testimony is very important. I’d like to clarify that I asked the Association des professionnels du dépannage du Québec to be here. Thank you for that.
To begin, can you tell us which province most of the abandoned vehicles are from?