Evidence of meeting #9 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Just in that small sample, it was millions.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
We suspect that it's even higher today.
Mr. Laskowski, earlier, the Parliamentary Secretary pointed out a number of things the government has done or intends to do on this issue.
Since 2022, 2023 or 2024, do you think this phenomenon has been decreasing or growing?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Give a very short response, please.
Give a very short response, please.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
The answer is that it's becoming progressively worse. Inside the document you have there, you will see the stats from ESDC presenting on this, and it is the one that I will say is the most clear to understand what you are dealing with.
When ESDC went to visit these carriers—let's be clear, the trucking owners—they found that 25% of them were in gross violation. When they went back a month or 45 days later to see if they were getting compliance, they couldn't find them. They were gone. This is what we are dealing with.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much.
Ms. Nguyen, the floor is yours.
You have five minutes, please.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming to join us today on an issue that deserves some important discussion.
Ms. Walker talked about the exploitation of folks in the sector, recognizing that some people who are doing this work, especially newcomers, came through legitimate pathways. I want to recognize that they came under those conditions and it sounds like they are being exploited in ways that are really challenging.
I am curious about the HR pipeline challenges across the sector. I wonder if Angela could comment on this.
Where are we, and how do we forecast so we can build and ensure that this is an industry that has the HR resourcing that we need?
Chief Executive Officer, Trucking Human Resources Canada
It's a concern for us in terms of that pipeline. As I mentioned, more and more carriers are having drivers come in saying that they want to be paid under this model. We're hearing anecdotally from employers across the country around that.
The second thing is that now it's spreading into other occupations, into more warehousing roles. That's a challenge, but it's also that image of the industry. This practice is harming our industry.
The workers currently in the industry are discouraged seeing this, seeing workers being treated unfairly. As was mentioned, recruiting new workers into our sector remains a challenge.
We need more women and young people, and this is not helping us. That is a serious concern for an industry that continually has higher vacancies.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Could I ask other witnesses to comment on this issue as well?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
I'll try not to hog the mic. I'm prone to that.
With regard to recruitment, I think the biggest takeaway you have is as it relates to Driver Inc.
In parts of Canada we did a survey. We asked our carriers to ask their recruiters what the biggest trend is that they are seeing in the marketplace with regard to driver recruitment and hiring. Depending where you are, seven out of 10 or eight out of 10 drivers who walk through that door, looking for a job, responding to an ad, want to be paid under the Driver Inc. model.
What does that mean for the future of our industry? It means this: If you don't choose to go to the underground economy, despite your principles, you will have no one to drive your truck.
Drivers now—good drivers, law-abiding drivers, long-term drivers—are now going to the owners and saying that because we are in a horrible economy, raises are hard to come by and they see what's happening in the marketplace. They are saying to their owner, if I can't get a raise, I am leaving you. I am going down the street to the Driver Inc. company—because everybody knows who they are—and I will start working in the underground economy too. Folks, this isn't hyperbole and I'm not here to be political, but because the government has clearly said that it doesn't care, they are saying, I need the extra $15,000 to $20,000 a year in my pocket because it's a huge difference for my family.
That is the crisis facing my membership, this industry and public highways.
Liberal
Chi Nguyen Liberal Spadina—Harbourfront, ON
Do either Ms. Couture or Ms. Walker have anything else to add on that one?
Chief Executive Officer, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
Things really need to change. Driver Inc. is causing a lot of issues within our sector. It is forcing drivers out. We have professional drivers now who are questioning why they're doing it. We have drivers who are refusing to run Highway 11/17 through northern Ontario because they don't want to die on those roads.
I can tell you that in the span of six months, I was hit three times on Highway 11/17 through northern Ontario. One of those times I was pushed right into the rock cut. That's scary, especially when your teammate is sleeping in the bunk.
We really need to do something about these drivers who are coming in from these companies. It needs to stop.
We are seeing where their trucks are breaking down. I had a female driver who was stranded in B.C. She was out of Ontario. It was Christmastime and her carrier told her, it's your problem, not mine. She reached out for help. CBSA had taken her truck out of service. There she was, sitting with no place to go, in a truck that didn't run and it was freezing cold outside. I flew that driver home.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much.
Mr. Groleau, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Dear witnesses, thank you for being here. I know that you aren't here with a light heart today.
I'd like to begin my remarks by recalling a tragedy that profoundly affected the Beauce region and upset an entire community. A 26-year-old woman died in Vallée‑Jonction. This woman was the victim of an accident caused by a truck driver working for a subcontractor company. The company used a scheme called “Drive Inc.” This company was already under investigation for serious issues related to vehicle maintenance, including the transportation of excessive loads.
The safety of Canadians must be a priority.
How can the Liberal government allow a company under investigation for such serious offences to continue operating on our roads and endanger the lives of citizens?
It's shameful.
Mr. Laskowski, can you briefly describe the Driver Inc. illegal scheme?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
The strategy itself was born in 2018 when the moratorium on T4As was born. You marry that with the personal services business model and as an owner you're looking at $20,000 to $30,000 per year, per driver in savings. There are other benefits as we move along.
With regard to how it then evolved over time, you started to attract non-professional owners. For the owners I represent and that other folks represent, when they get into trucking, it's not a business to just make money; it's a commitment to public safety.
What happened with regard to the underground economy is that trucks were no longer looked at as a matter of security and responsibility, but as cash registers. As a cash register, you could care little about the principles of safety, about the families you impact, about whether your employee is in a safe truck or about or those who share the road.
We have seen this deterioration over 14 years.
Shelley brought up Highway 11/17. The Ontario Trucking Association surveyed 1,200 professional truck drivers and 90% of them said that they no longer want to drive Highway 11/17 because they're scared for their lives—not because of poor maintenance, animals or potholes, but because of their fellow truck drivers.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Laskowski.
Ms. Couture, who are these companies using the Driver Inc. scheme and where do they come from?
Executive Director, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
They come from all over the place. Some come from Ontario, others from Quebec. In fact, they come from every province.
Conservative
Executive Director, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
Anyone can do that.
Immigrants come here after they've been sold a dream. Their employers have them sign certain documents so that they can incorporate into a Driver Inc. company, telling them that they'll be better paid and won't pay taxes. That's already tax evasion. People from other countries who come here with a closed work permit have no choice but to stay with those employers, and that's what they do.
I'll give you a concrete example. A driver hired by company A must make a delivery from Toronto to Cornwall, and that company warns him that he can't be late because the customer in Cornwall imposes a $1,000 fine as soon as there's a 30-minute delay.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
Do these people receive the same training as everyone else in the trucking industry?
Are those companies as strict as private companies?
Executive Director, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
Those companies don't provide training. They operate with threats. Drivers are threatened, and they're scared. Regardless of what happens, a flat tire, an accident, traffic congestion or a delay in Cornwall is their fault and the fine is levied on their pay.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
Do you have any idea how long it takes someone to get a driver's licence, based on the Driver Inc. model?
I've seen horror stories.
Executive Director, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
For some, it can take six to eight weeks. For others, it can take a weekend.
Executive Director, Women's Trucking Federation of Canada
Yes, that's correct.
Conservative
Jason Groleau Conservative Beauce, QC
We can wonder how safety rules can be respected if driver training is only given on a single weekend. It's unbelievable.