Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

It's a pleasure to be joining you this evening as the official opposition shadow minister for ethics.

My question is for Mr. McCallum.

Sir, what is your relationship to the Wailian group?

[John McCallum]

Are you talking about the talk I gave about immigration?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'm talking about any of your work for that group, sir.

[John McCallum]

Okay, I—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'll stop the time.

Mr. Oliphant, go ahead on a point of order.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I would like the member to clarify how this applies to the mandate of our—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not a matter of order, Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

It is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. There should be one person at a time, please.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I would like a clarification. We have a standing order that we are following, and I would like to understand how that relates to the mandate of this committee to investigate the relationship between Canada and China, our bilateral relationship, including many issues.

I don't know how that applies to our mandate as a committee.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, on that point of order, it's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Genuis, I will recognize you, of course, but I want to ask that you wait until I recognize you before speaking.

Please go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's quite striking that the parliamentary secretary intervened after there was one line of questioning from the Conservative ethics critic. If he's going to complain about relevance, he could at least wait to hear the direction my colleague was going in.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

On a point of order, this is debate.

This is debate, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Fragiskatos, Mr. Genuis has the floor.

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I agree with Mr. Fragiskatos that the point of order by Mr. Oliphant was a point of debate. We should get back to the questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, both.

Of course, I ask you to respect the mandate of the committee.

Mr. Barrett, the floor is again yours.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

My question is for you, Mr. McCallum, with respect to the nature of your relationship with the Wailian group.

[John McCallum]

I gave a talk to some of their clients who were thinking about immigrating to Canada, and that became controversial in a Globe and Mail article. It was natural for me to encourage Chinese or other foreigners to immigrate to Canada, because I have for many years thought that immigration was good for Canada.

In light of the Globe and Mail article, which alleged that I had done something wrong in terms of the rules—which I did not think I had—I submitted evidence to the Ethics Commissioner and I had a conversation with the Ethics Commissioner. He agreed with me that I had done nothing wrong, that I had broken no rules, and that he was not going to launch any investigation. He said to me that I could report this to the public. I am now reporting it.

I broke no rules, according to the Ethics Commissioner, in giving that talk to that group of people when I was in China.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did you have interactions with that group while you were serving as ambassador?

[John McCallum]

No. I never met them when I was serving as ambassador.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you.

Had you communicated with Minister Mendicino about your work with the Wailian group or Chinese immigration following your tenure as ambassador?

[John McCallum]

No. I had a conversation with Minister Mendicino, at his initiative, which was a general conversation about what he should do about levels of immigration post-pandemic. We had a talk about that. We did not talk about China, as I recall, and certainly not about any of my clients. When I spoke to those clients, I mentioned something that Mr. Mendicino said, but it was fully in the public domain. It was not inside information.

I put all of that to the Ethics Commissioner, and he agreed there was nothing wrong with any of that.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Have you communicated with anyone at the Chinese embassy here at home since your resignation as ambassador?