Finance Committee on June 1st, 2021

Evidence of meeting #52 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clauses.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-30

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Erin O'Brien Director General, Financial Services Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Justin Brown Acting Director General, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Gabriel Ngo Senior Advisor, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Julie Trepanier Director, Payments Policy, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Richard Bilodeau Director General, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Kathleen Wrye Acting Director, Pensions Policy, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Neil Mackinnon Senior Advisor, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Garima Dwivedi Director General, Indigenous Institutions and Governance Modernization, Resolution and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Leane Walsh Director, Fiscal Policy and Investment Readiness, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Suzanne Kennedy Acting Director General, Federal-Provincial Relations Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Omar Rajabali Director General, Social Policy Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Eric Malara Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Samuel Millar Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance

Andre Arbour Acting Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Steve Watton Manager, Policy, Canada Small Business Financing Program, Department of Industry

Yannick Mondy Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Lorraine Pelot Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Barbara Moran Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program - Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

David Charter Director, Workplace Information and Research Division, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoit Cadieux Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Toby Hoffmann Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Anna Dekker Acting Senior Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Stephen Scott Director General, Strategy and Performance, National Research Council of Canada

Frances McCormick Executive Director, Integrated Labour System, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Nina Damsbaek Director, Policy and Research, Canada Student Loans Program, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger

Christopher Duschenes Director General, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services

Kristen Underwood Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Kevin Wagdin Director, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

5:55 p.m.

Director General, Social Policy Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Omar Rajabali

Yes, they are on a per capita basis.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Good. Thanks.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Shall clause 198 carry on division?

(Clause 198 agreed to on division)

(On clauses 199 and 200)

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Ms. Kennedy, you might as well stay with us for the next two clauses. I know you're not back until division 16.

We'll go to division 14, on the Canada community-building fund.

There are no amendments to clauses 199 and 200. Could we have a general explanation from Mr. Malara generally on those two clauses?

Go ahead, Eric. Could you give us an overview? Then maybe we could vote on these two together. We'll see.

Mr. Malara.

June 1st, 2021 / 5:55 p.m.

Eric Malara Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Thank you.

The federal gas tax fund is a permanent, legislated and indexed funding program that currently provides over $2.2 billion annually to fund municipal and first nations infrastructure.

Clause 199 of Bill C-30 proposes an additional one-time payment of $2.2 billion through the gas tax fund, which is double the amount committed to municipalities across Canada each year.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Mr. Falk is first, and then Mr. Kelly.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for that brief explanation.

This is what was known formerly as the gas tax. Is that correct?

5:55 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

It is currently the gas tax fund, yes.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

I'm sorry. I see your head nodding, but I don't hear anything.

5:55 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

The program is currently called the federal gas tax fund. However, it will be renamed the Canada community-building fund, pursuant to clause 200 of Bill C-30.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Okay. Thank you.

My second question relates to the fact that previously, when infrastructure money was announced, getting the money out the door to the provinces was very slow. Do we have assurances that this money is going to be delivered more quickly to the municipalities? Is there a process, and can you talk a bit about the delays we've experienced previously in getting infrastructure dollars out? Were they departmental delays or were there delays in agreements with provinces and in funding agreements? Where did the previous delays come in?

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I think we're talking about two different things here, but go ahead, Mr. Malara.

6 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

Yes, I can talk about the federal gas tax fund, but not necessarily about the other programs.

For the federal gas tax fund, we have agreements with all the signatories, which include the provinces and territories. Once Bill C-30 is passed, the funds will be transferred through the current mechanisms, which call for the immediate distribution of the money.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Okay, and I think you're right, Mr. Chair. I think we're talking about two different things here, but it's good to hear that the gas tax money, now known as the Canada community-building fund, will be rolling out, as did the gas tax.

Thank you.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Just for the translators' benefit, we will finish this section, with clauses 199 and 200, and if we don't finish until 6:05, we'll give you guys the 30 minutes in any event.

Mr. Kelly is next.

Go ahead, please.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Thanks.

Our analysts flagged that this change is in both Bill C-25 and Bill C-30. Is there a difference between what's contained in those bills, or why is this change apparently in both bills?

6 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

Thank you for your question.

I think that Bill C-25 was covered by Bill C-30. Both are the same, but now we're talking about Bill C-30, rather than Bill C-25.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Fast.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

I'm glad to see that this funding is included in the budget. I'm very pleased that the gas tax fund was made permanent in 2011.

There are strategic carve-outs that are part of this program. Is that correct?

6 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

Thank you for your question.

Yes, an amount is allocated to Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Is it just Indigenous Services that are carve-outs, or are there other carve-outs for specific infrastructure-type projects?

6 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

The federal gas tax fund doesn't include specific payments other than for services for first nations. Under our agreements, the signatories can use the money in a certain way.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Let me ask this in simpler terms. On the choice of the projects that will be funded, is that process driven by the municipalities, by the province or by the federal government? Who is the driving force behind that?

6 p.m.

Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Eric Malara

The municipalities choose which projects to invest in, based on their priorities.

The current program includes 18 project categories in which the signatories and ultimate beneficiaries can invest.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you.