Finance Committee on June 1st, 2021

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Jansen.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

With regard to software needs as you roll this out, we've seen a number of very dramatic failures with different software programs that the government has tried to utilize for different things. Where are you with that? Where will you be getting your software in order to make all of this work?

[Erin O'Brien]

I would have to follow up with the Bank of Canada with respect to how it's implementing the framework, so with respect to that, I don't have that information available. I believe it is contracting with suppliers. You can imagine that the Bank of Canada is very conscious of managing risk, and it's managing this project appropriately.

I could turn to my colleague Richard Bilodeau, just on the national security element and how we are managing that.

Richard, do you have any additional details?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Bilodeau—or any of you, for that matter—if you want to come in on a point, just raise your hand, and I'll see you.

Mr. Bilodeau.

[Richard Bilodeau]

I would say we're working closely with the Bank of Canada, especially when it comes to national security and to make sure we can get information securely from the bank so we can conduct our national security reviews on prospective registrants.

I would say just generally that the bank has a lot of experience with systems and complicated systems. As Erin pointed out, it has a significant vested interest in making sure that those work properly and that we've developed the proper relationships with it and with our partners to make sure the system works and is reliable so that we can fulfill our obligations efficiently.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Is it the Bank of Canada that uses the Phoenix pay system? Who was using that?

[Richard Bilodeau]

I do not know the answer to those questions.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

You've gone partially to where my question was going, which was whether that two-year estimate is the Bank of Canada's estimate. Is that a pretty firm estimate, that two years, or does the Bank of Canada have to start from scratch in estimating this? Part of why I ask that is that Ms. Jansen raised the issue that it is fairly systemic, across different lines of government, through different governments. This is not a partisan shot or observation. It's a fact that procurement of large systems has been something that governments of Canada have struggled with, so I wonder how firm that two-year estimate would be and whether that's just a departmental estimate or that is the Bank of Canada's estimate.

[Erin O'Brien]

We worked very closely with the bank in terms of these elements. I would say it's a joint estimate. We have project planning maps, and Gantt charts and all of that under way. We feel relatively confident in terms of this time horizon. There is a significant amount of work involved in terms of both developing the regulations and setting up the operational oversight framework, but we've also been at this for a number of years. Work has been under way for quite some time in anticipation of this legislation coming forward.

We'll have to remain flexible, but we remain determined to bring this forward as soon as is practical.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, that's it, Pat.

Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This may come up with regard to a later clause, but Ms. O'Brien, can you talk a little about the relationship between the centre and the Bank of Canada, and how exactly they'll operate? Are they operating at arm's length or not at arm's length? I know there's a relationship. I'm not quite clear as to what that will look like and how it will flesh itself out.

[Erin O'Brien]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by “the centre”.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

The centre is the payment entity that's going to oversee and regulate.

[Erin O'Brien]

That will be the Bank of Canada.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm skipping around the act here so much. It has here that the centre may, at its discretion, report to the bank on certain issues.

[Erin O'Brien]

Oh, are you looking at one of the consequential amendments?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes.

[Erin O'Brien]

I think that might mean FINTRAC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

What page of the bill is it, Ted?

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

You know, I am trying to get back there. I was trying to cross-reference it with what is referred to as the centre. The centre is defined right at the beginning of clause 178 there, in the definitions. It seems like it's actually a division of the Bank of Canada, and that's why I'm a little fuzzy as to exactly how it's going to operate. It's going to be the one involved in this section of the act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On page 242 it has, “The Centre shall notify the Bank of Canada as soon as feasible if” and then it says if there's a finding of guilt, etc. That's what you've referred to.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes.